london blasts

Armchair politics, ethical soapbox and current affairs. Place to discuss vegan ethics and general ethics and politics. Be nice.

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Postby J » Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:35 pm

What percentage of you supported the Iraq war in the first place? Not very many I don't think. Wasn't it like 5%? I wonder if maybe this will piss people off so much that more people end up supporting it.
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Postby Coney » Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:37 pm

I don't know what the hell is wrong with people. I don't care if the attacks were "terrorists" meaning brown-skinned middle eastern people (like the government wants us to think of "terrorists"), or if it was the CIA. This kind of crap has to stop. The Earth is so sick of it, we as humans are so sick of it.

Has everyone noticed that as soon as we get a little less scared, there's something that happens to put the fear back in our lives? "They" need us to be scared so we'll let our civil liberties be taken away in the name of security and 'they' can get their military state. How soon do you think Osama bin Laden will show up this time?

I'm so pissed. Can we move to a new planet?

I've heard from lots of people we know over there and everyone seems to be ok. Do we know if others on this board who are in the London area are ok?
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Postby Strix » Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:05 pm

Haven't read the thread, but I wanted to pop in and send out my condolences to the folks in the U.K. So sorry...
Hopes were still there (despite the actions of the "coalition") that no one else would experience this.

This is just more evidence that the "War on Terror" is not working.

Best to you all,

Strix
"The hand that signed the paper felled a city;
Five sovereign fingers taxed the breath,
Doubled the globe of dead and halved a country;
These five kings did a king to death."
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Postby PinkFluffyCloud » Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:39 pm

I feel so angry and scared about this. :?

Like a lot of Brits I have friends in London, and have spent quite a bit of time there myself. Ugh, it just sickens you when you see the TV footage, doesn't it? :cry:

Bloody people, how can this keep happening. :evil:
The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind, the answer is blowing in the wind..............
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Postby compassionategirl » Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:56 am

Although I have said elsewhere that I haven't the time to engage in detailed discussions and debates until August, I must, on this very solemn day, write to express my heartfelt condolensces to the British people, particularly those who have lost loved ones in this UTTERLY STUPID AND SENSELESS tragedy.

I must also say that I am disgusted and ashamed with my own people. Today, when they were interviewing members of the public on the lcoal news on City TV, and asking them whether they were afraid of riding the subways now in Toronto, some offered stupid responses with utterly inappropriate smiles. Responses included things like "NO, cuz that was London and this is Toronto." What is there to be smiling ear to ear about you fools?

I admit that this was only a few people, and young, immature adolescents, but I am still appalled that anybody's body language could, however inadvertently, produce the face to smile when being asked such a question on a tragic day like this. I know that for some people it is a nervous habit or something, and they don't mean to smile maybe, but I still found it very disconcerting. What the F%$CK is wrong with people? SOmetimes I just want to shake the crap out of people or smack them silly.

Anyway, I just want to apologize to all Brits for the few idiots that were on the news today. Most Canadians, indeed all decent people, are utterly appalled by this tragedy and have the British people in our thoughts and prayers.

There are two quotes that I love which I think are fitting here.

'True human goodness, in all its purity and freedom, can come to the fore only when its recipient has no power. Mankind's true moral test (which lies deeply buried from view) consists of its attitude toward those who are at its mercy: the animals. And in this respect, mankind has suffered a fundamental debacle, a debacle so fundamental that all others stem from it.'

"All beings tremble before violence. All fear death. All value their own lives. See youself in other living things. Then who can you hurt? What harm can you cause?"

I especially like this last one because it really contains the answer for I think all that ails the world. It invites us to realize the fundamental things that all peoples, of all colours, races and religions, and indeed all species of beings, HAVE in common, instead of focussing on superficial differences between races, religions and indeed species.

Peace to all beings.
"One cannot speak of peace with a mouthful of victims of violence."

"If the animal rights movement pushes too hard, too fast, it is because the excesses in the opposite direction are mammoth in comparison."
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Postby Veganbiker » Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:09 am

Has everyone noticed that as soon as we get a little less scared, there's something that happens to put the fear back in our lives?


Maybe fear back into our lives, or maybe perspective about what is important (peace, love and not the material nonsense that we are all so tied up in)

I have a feeling this may part of of the point that these things happen (that is almost a religious statement, but im not an atheist by any stretch so im not afraid to say it). Just my own personal beliefs obviously. But my goodness, the problems that were beginning to swamp me with stress just seem miniscule and unimportant again.

What is good if you have never experienced bad?

This is not to say that what happened yesterday was right, just that when people ask 'why did this have to happen, why is the world like it is' there may actually be a reason that we just dont know about yet.
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Postby littlegirlbunny » Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:14 am

That last post (veganbiker) was me - the gitbag has been using my computer and not logged off!
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Postby Mary » Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:38 am

My ex sister in law works in admin in the british medical school round the corner from the bus blast. She had to stay in work overnight, and email someone to phone someone to feed the cat.

She is okay, but I think a lot of people are in shock.

Anyone heard from Tarz?
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Postby Tarz » Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:39 am

Am OK thanks folks.

Whole day was weird, it felt that something was not right when I started my journey. I travel on the Northern Line from north London each day. The line was delayed because of signal problems further south down the line. The train got as far as a couple of stations, then heard the whole Northern Line was suspended, then the whole of the Tube network due to 'power failure' in Central London. I hung about waiting on my tube - sometimes the lines start running again quite soon, and anyway best to wait until the rush on leaving the station and trying to get buses has died down.

Eventually this station, Archway, was evacuated so I got on a bus that was going to London Bridge, as that is relatively close to where I work. On the bus, overheard people talking about explosions and bombs in Russell Square. Then you'd hear something that it was just power surges causing the explosions. My bus only got as far as Caledonian Road, very close to Kings Cross. Bus after bus after bus was lined up. I just thought the traffic was busy for obvious reasons. Eventually my bus was evacuated as well. Walked towards Kings Cross, got as far as the police cordon. Lot's of people mingling about. You wouldn't believe the amount of emergency vehicles speeding past, sirens blaring and helicopters overhead. At one time six ambulances in a row flew by. Just like something of a disaster movie. From chatting to people realised that this was a very major incident - bombs had gone off on tubes and buses, but it was still very confused - people had heard that three buses were hit. My mobile network was down, there were queues for BT payphones ( some people were selfishly hogging the phones and were not as quick as they could of been, so that others could then use the phones and let people know they were also OK ) so it was a nightmare trying to let people know you were safe.

I walked to Angel - Chapel Street Market was eerily deserted. Just watched the news in a pub and a cafe - it was raining. Finally got home at 16.45.

The thing that upset me the most was the randomness of it. Getting on one particular carriage instead of another meant that people lived or died yesterday. Some people would of just missed/caught the affected tubes. The bus had been diverted from it's normal route, and a lot of the people on it would normally of been on a tube and had just been evacuated ...Things like that trouble you the most.

The tubes were obviously subdued and realtively quiet this morning. People were very sombre. They were less passengers than usual. The tube nearest were I work was very quiet - I was the only one in the lift, when normally they can be up to 15 people in them. The stack of Metro newspapers was quite full, when normally they would of all been picked up. It's things like that you notice.

J - not many people supported the war in Irag for the fact they thought it would increase the likelihood of a terrorist atrocity occuring. More people will obviously support the war in Iraq more than they did. I still believe the intervention in Iraq was a distraction from the real 'war on terror'. Iraq is now a hotbed of terrorist activity where previously it wasn't. That is our doing. As LGB says there are incidents like yesterday occuring everyday in Baghdad and other Iraqi towns and cities. Would yesterday of still happened if we hadn't gone into Iraq alongside the US? Was the UK a target until we decided to stand shoulder to shoulder with the US? I don't know. 9/11 happened before Afghanistan and Iraq, but were the terrorists only bothered about striking the US until we decided to get involved? Have we made ourselves a target? Perhaps we in the West will always be targets no matter what we do or don't. Perhaps we are hated by these fanatics whatever our policies are and shouldn't try to blame ourselves. It is very, very complex and there is no easy answers.

Anyway back at work today. Hoping to get a train back up to Staffs this afternoon I booked earlier in the week. I will continue to live my life as I normally do.
Last edited by Tarz on Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:40 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Rochellita » Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:48 am

That's a touching personal account, Tarz. Gla dto hear that you are OK.
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Postby littlegirlbunny » Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:49 am

So glad you've posted - i was beginning to get worried. :)
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Postby Mary » Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:55 am

Thanks Tarz. We were thinking of you yesterday. Although we know it is unlikely any of our friends were involved, we know people in London, and it is good to know you are safe.

And nice as well to hear that you have taken it realistically, calmly and thoughtfully. I wish everyone would be as balanced as you have.

Try not to get stressed in the aftermath! It can happen.
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Postby Sunkanrags » Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:00 am

I would like to contextualise this event - as others have done. I note that there will be minutes of silence around Britain tomorrow and that always gets me a-thinking, especially with the G8 meeting a few miles north of the events of London (what do we call them: 7/7?).

I wrote the following just after 9/11 - it could we written again now...


A few days after ‘September 11th’.

There has been an atrocity committed. Perhaps many thousands of people have been killed, and millions psychologically harmed in the United States of America.

We in Britain have been asked (asked mind, because we are ‘free’ and ‘democratic’) to observe a minute of silence for the victims of this particular atrocity. What interests me, notwithstanding the genuine terror of what occurred in North America, is why this atrocity has been declared so important. It is not the biggest by any means - and it is not even the latest - so why this one?

As I have been asked to observe a minute’s silence for these victims, can I claim another minute for other victims of needless slaughter and harm?

What about the estimated one to two million women and small children sold into sexual slavery every year? No plane has crashed into a rich, comfortable, skyscraper office in this case, true; but imagine the terror of having to “service” several men each day when you are an eight year old child. Imagine being beaten if you do not submit to being penetrated by adult strangers several times a day. So, a minute’s silence for them then, yes?

I cannot imagine how frightened you would have to be to deliberately throw yourself from a burning building: how terror-filled is that? By the same token, I cannot imagine starving to death as my parents look on helpless to help me. This happens every few seconds somewhere in the world (in ‘unfree’ and ‘undemocratic’ places one assumes). Maybe a minute’s silence for them? But wait, this atrocity continues on a daily basis - this one has not physically stopped - two minutes then?

What can it feel like to be locked into a form of transport and forcefully driven to your death. It is hard to imagine the feeling of fear and terror. Being forced into a situation against your wishes is obviously a horrible and terrifying thing: and being killed in someone’s “act of war” is not a consolation I should say. Yet, in the “war against cancer” and “the war against AIDS”, millions of unwilling victims are forcefully transported to their deaths in laboratories: while further billions (about 45 billion every year in fact) are transported to their deaths because others like to eat their bodies. Perhaps a minute’s silence?

But wait, ‘free’ and ‘democratic’ North America kills about three hundred of these particular terrified victims every SECOND and in Britian, ‘we’ kill about 26 per second: how can we accommodate our minute’s silence, when another and another and another is required long before the first has even begun?

I just cannot figure out when all these silences will end - but I also cannot figure out the grounds for starting with the victims of Tuesday’s atrocity. In atrocious circles, Tuesday is way gone.
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Postby Tarz » Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:51 am

Yeah, thanks for your concern Rochelle, LGB, Mary and Emile. I was touched this morning when I read this thread and my PM's. :D
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Postby runner » Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:32 pm

We could all be in your position. But even if we couldn't.

this is something nobody deserves.

I agree that we don't know a lot of things this makes it also so stupit.

If you don't even have a clear message... why do something like this...?

You might have killed people who support your filosophy..

Do you make any step forward?

what's next?

Bush Blair Balkenende ore other (conservative) politicians will not change there policies because of this, past ore future attacks...
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