Why does everybody hate peta??

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Why does everybody hate peta??

Postby compassionategirl » Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:58 pm

Many of you have expressed contempt for peta and expressed hopes that it ends. This puzzles me.

Peta does great work, and difficult work. It is one of the few organizations that have remained true to their cause, their vision. It shrieks at the world to see what it sees, ready or not. It is beacuse of PETA that I and three of people that I know have converted to veg. IT is because of peta that thousands of animals are saved.

many of you complain that PETA should not be telling people to boycott KFC chicken, for example, because it sends the message that it is okay to eat other companies' humanely slaughtered animals (if there is even such a thing). Please understand that PETA has never condoned anything but a veg diet, and it is clear and strong in its vegan outreach campaigns. But PETA must also be practical and realistic. TO that end, PETA correctly realizes that not everybody is going to go vegan right here, right now. Thus, until that happens, PETA works to improve the conditions of animals that are in slaugherhouses and factory farms. In other words, so long as their are people out there that are going to keep eating animals, these animals should at the very least be treated more humanely. This is not to concede or imply that it is okay to eat animals. PETA is very unequivocal about its philospohy. It simply means that PETA is realistic and all too aware of the unfortunate reality that many people will not give up eating animals anytime in the near future. Does PETA work to encourage veganism? Abso - freakin - lutely. Is that PETA's ultimate and main goal? of course. Without PETA, the world would be a much more dangerous and exploitative place for animals.

I cringe when I hear fellow veggies wish PETA would disappear.

Furthermore, please point out the racist and sexist campaigns that PETA has done? I am not aware of any.

Furthermore, I contacted PETA about the animal cruelty charges laid against its staffers and about euthanization. I am willing to give an animal advocacy organization like PETA the benefit of any doubt before I jump to conclusions. I am glad I did, because PETA's response, at least with respect to why PETA has offered free euthanization services to North Carolina shelters, is consistent with animal protection, kindness and tragedy of the current state of affairs with respect to shelter animals in that state. here is a copy of that response:


Thank you for contacting PETA about the euthanization of dogs and cats in North Carolina.



It is against PETA’s policy to put the bodies of animals in dumpsters, and we are appalled that a member of our staff apparently did that. There is no excuse for that and, despite the fact that she is a caring soul, we have suspended her from work.



PETA has always supported and spoken openly about euthanasia. It is easy to throw stones at those doing the dirty work for society, but euthanasia is a necessary evil until the massive animal overpopulation problem can be solved. We invite anyone who can offer a home to any animal, pay for one or a hundred spay/neuter surgeries, or persuade others not to go to a pet shop or breeder, to please join us in doing these things. In the last year, we have spayed/neutered more than 7,600 dogs and cats, including feral animals, many free of charge and all others at well below our own costs. Support for this program is much needed.



To clarify, we do not run an adoption facility, although we do place animals, approximately 360 in the last year, despite having run out of friends and family members to approach. We are a “shelter of last resort,” taking in and giving a painless death in loving arms to animals who would otherwise have been shot with a .22 or gassed in a windowless metal box, which is what happened in North Carolina before PETA offered free euthanasia services to agencies there. North Carolina has the second highest rate per capita of euthanasia in the country—35 animals killed annually for every 1,000 residents—and most do not die a humane death. Sadly, the shelters we work with have no adoption programs or hours set aside for adoption. At the Bertie County dog shelter, residents were throwing unwanted dogs over an 8-foot-high fence, where they became infected or injured by other sick or aggressive dogs from whom they could not escape. Bertie County also had no facility for cats and used to let them go to breed in the woods and fend for themselves until PETA built a shelter for them this year. PETA has begged for years, through formal proposals and numerous meetings to have the county allow PETA to implement an adoption program as part of a larger picture of sheltering that would also include a spay neuter program, a humane education program, 24/7 emergency services, and rabies clinics.



We try never to take in adoptable animals unless we know we have a home for them—only those who are mange-covered, have parvovirus, are injured, unsocialized from life on a chain, or unwanted and for whom there are no good homes available. We also work at the roots, spending more than $240,000 in one North Carolina county alone, to provide shelter in winter for animals left out in the cold, to spay/neuter, to get vet care for animals in dire straits, to send Bertie County’s one animal control officer to professional training, to pay a cleaner to maintain two shelters, and much more.



We have always outspokenly advocated fixing the problems of overpopulation through practical methods. Sadly, those stories don’t get coverage in the media.



We urge you to look closer and do your part to help us help these animals. For information and resources on how to do that, visit HelpingAnimals.com.



Sincerely,


The PETA Staff

lastly, I agree that the problem is with breeding. Please realize that anybody who breeds animals when hundreds of thousands of animals are put to sleep each year because there is simply no room to house them and no homes that want them is IRRESPONSIBLE. I have always found it difficult to understand how anybody who TRULY loves animals, all animals, can breed and thereby EXACERBATE the animal over population problem. While these breeders may THINK and genuinely believe they love animals, the fact of the matter is that they love money more. Breeding should be outlawed and there should be laws in every country REQUIRING the spaying and neutering of all pets and strays until the pet over population problem is under control. NO wonder PETA is sadly forced to euthanize animals. I can assure you that each euthanization is heart-wrenching and utterly devastating for PETA.
"One cannot speak of peace with a mouthful of victims of violence."

"If the animal rights movement pushes too hard, too fast, it is because the excesses in the opposite direction are mammoth in comparison."
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Postby prenna » Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:06 pm

I'll keep this short and to the point. Reasons to hate PETA:

1) Sexism (from objectifying women to promote the idea that women who don't shave their crotches are undesireable)

2) Killing thousands of animals every year, which could have been kept alive and healthy had they spent a little less money on advertising and publicity stunts.

3) Treating grassroots local groups like shit. They roll into town and expect local activists to do most of the work for their media-circus demos and then leave when the hard work (ie a sustained campaign) needs to be done.

4) Encouraging support for Murder King because they start providing veggie options.

5) Taking credit for victories they had nothing to do with.

6) Turning the animal rights movement into nothing but a product to be promoted for financial gain with their PETA2 MTV style band endorsements.

7) LYing to the public about "celebrity vegans" even when they are informed that some of the celebs are no longer (if they ever were) vegan

8 ) Treating grassroots activist like shit (again) when they do a stall at a gig for them. Recently they contacted one activist two days after a Moby gig demanding a stall report for the website or "you won't be allowed to do stalls at a gig again". The activist in question not only freely gave up her time to do the stall but also spend most of the rest of her free time organising local grassroots campaigns, which receive no support from PETA.



I could go on but that'll do for starters. PETA are a parasite the movement could do better without.
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Postby compassionategirl » Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:14 pm

Hi Prenna,

Could you please provide specific examples of your allegations?

1. How does PETA objecify women, which specific campaigns are sexist and racist, and what is this about shaving crotches?

2. The "publicity stunts" that you speak of are what reaches people and informs nd changes them. It is thanks to these "stunts" that I am now veg, and I am sure I am not the only one. Unfortunately, PETA does not have unlimited financial resouces and so it must choose what it believes is money best spent. This is a subjective thing. Maybe if PETA had done less publicity stunts, more animals would be alive in the hear and now, but I might, for example, not have truned veg when I did. My conversion to veg has saved over 90 animals a year (multiplied by three so that is 270 animals - and that is just my conversion alone). And my activist efforts to end speciesm will hopefully save more. Again, all this has happened because of PETA's aggressive, in your face publicity stunts. Of course, it would be great if PETA can do EVERYTHING that we and it want to it to do, but unfortunately, PETA's bank account is not a bottomless pit.


3. My experience with PETA coming to town has been nothing but positive, and I know that, generally, Toronto activists are happy with PETA. Never have I as an activist supporting a PETA demo been treated like shit. Just the opposite, actually. PETA has been nothing but helpful and supportive of our efforts here. As for taking the credit, I really don't care who takes credit for what: All I care about is a world that is a better place for animals. This isn't about glory or creditor acknowledgment for me. But I do not expect everybody to feel the same way. I am just expressing my own view about "taking credit" here.

As far as leaving when the hard work needs to be done - again, PETA has a finite number of bodies and animal exploitation is a global problem. AS activists, do we really need PETA to hold our hand the whole time anyway? When I need info, pamphlets, posters, videos, tips, advice, PETA is there. It sends me what I need, free of charge, asap. The rest is and should be up to me if I am serious about being an activist.


4. How does PETA encourage support for Murder King? Murder King responded to PETA pressure by implementing better conditions for the animals which they kill to make profit. I understand that the goal is and should be shutting down these animal exploiting, environment degrading corps. And PETA would LOVE to see that happen and vociferously promotes a vegan diet as the best way to stop animal exploitation. But PETA is pragmatic and realistic - it understands that not everybody is going to be vegan NOW, and so as long as people continue eating meat, then there is NO WAY that PETA or anybody else can permamently terminate fast food giants. So the immediate thing might very well be to ensure that the animals scheduled for slaughter now are treated as humanely as we can possibly do. Until demand for Murder King is eliminated, the corp will survive. best way to eliminate demand is to reach people, and change hearts and minds. PETA has ALWAYS had active and ongoing campaigns to achieve that very purpose. But it not only thinks about the perfect day when animals will be liberated, it also tries to make the lives of animals that are sadly NOT going to be liberated today and tomorrow as painless and misery free as possible.

To be clear, I am a non-speciest animal liberationist/rights activist and agree that NO cages are better than bug cages, but certainly, bigger cages are better than small cages. :cry: I would like nothing more than to raid mink farms and free animals right here and now. And while that may shut down the mink farm for a while or even for good, it has not changed the mind or heart of the mink farmer. It has only further alienated him from the cause and probably made him more determined and loathing of animals and animal activists than ever. I am not saying that the correctness of one apporach is more obvious than the other. AS I said before in another post, when it is not our asses ON THE LINE that are about to be anally electrocuted, it is easy to be a gradualist, a moderate, or whatever label one wants to use. What I am saying is that while our message is clear and true - speciesm is wrong - the best way to achieve this kind of change as soon as possible is clearly a conundrum.


6. This one was a real shocker for me. IT is a very harsh allegation and I would really like a more fuller elaboration of this with specific instances/ evidence supporting the allegation. In the absence of such evidence, I have NO REASON to think that PETA is in this for financial gain, or that PETA is exploiting the movement to make money. PETA would love nothing more than to be rendered unnecessary, and works for the day that nonspeciesm will be as natural as breathing. It would like nothing more than to shut its doors forever because speciesm and animal exploitation are history. Sadly, that ain't gonna happen in the near future. How is it exactly that the MTV style band endorsements of PETA are a bad thing? PETA believes that speciesm is inappropriate. So the stronger PETA gets, the more this message can be heard.

7. Which celebrity vegans has PETA lied about? How do you know that PETA has knowingly lied? Again, please provide some proof by way of specific incidents or examples.

I would appreciate the long, detailed and supported version of your allegations so that I may arrive at an informed opinion. Although, I am not likely to ever feel the contempt for PETA that you do because I accept PETA's philosophy and mission statement, which if we recall is this:

Animals are not ours to eat, wear, experiment on or use in entertainment. This, I beleive (as I think you do as well), is the correct premise on which to rest social change for animals.
"One cannot speak of peace with a mouthful of victims of violence."

"If the animal rights movement pushes too hard, too fast, it is because the excesses in the opposite direction are mammoth in comparison."
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Postby Dave Noisy » Sat Jun 18, 2005 5:57 am

Hi Compassionategirl,

You requested a response in the PETA/dog thread, so here i am. =)

I see in your profile you're from the T-Dot. Cool. I'm over on the Wet Coast, but i'm actually a director of ARK II, which is based in TO. I have many connections there as well.

Prenna has done an excellent job pointing out some of PETA's more significant flaws.

I'm guessing (from reading your postings) you're fairly new to the animal 'movement', so i can see why this is all a shock/surprise to you. It will all soon be second nature however, once you start to spend time with people who've been involved for a while. (I've been vegan for nearly 15yrs, and an activist close to 10yrs of that. I also interned at PETA for six months in 2001.)

The first few times PETA barrels through your town, does a ridiculous publicity stunt, or tells you to buy and eat non-vegan burgers from one of the largest killers of animals, you shrug it off, since it seems like it's only a few times.

But soon enough, you see it happen over and over. You come to expect it.

I'm not going to bother expounding on Prenna's points, but for whatever it's worth, i agree with them whole-heartedly. I hope someone else will clarify your questions.

Welcome to the 'real' world.... ;)
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Postby compassionategirl » Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:02 am

Hi,

Again, while I appreciate your opinion, all you peta haters have yet to provide me with specific instances of Peta's "badness".

And no, actually I am not really that knew to activism at all.

Wow, you are an ARK direcor. That's cool.

AS far as PETA telling people to buy veggie burgers from animal exploiters, I have already specifically addressed this and am still waiting for a rebuttal. I find it frustrating that people are knocking organizations with sweeping statements without any substantiation of the allegtaions. It it easy to make statements like PETA is a parasite without having to account for them.

As an ARK director, I would really appreciate it if you would educate me, if you think I am uninformed and ignorrant of the issues. I would think also that you would want to do so and welcome the opportunity. Again, I am not getting the feeling from most of you that you are interested in making the effort.
"One cannot speak of peace with a mouthful of victims of violence."

"If the animal rights movement pushes too hard, too fast, it is because the excesses in the opposite direction are mammoth in comparison."
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Postby compassionategirl » Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:05 am

Please give me an example of a a ridiculous PETA publicity stunt, and a sexist or racist peta campaign.

or evidence that peta is dishonest about vegan clebrities, or evidence that is exploiting the cause for financial gain.
"One cannot speak of peace with a mouthful of victims of violence."

"If the animal rights movement pushes too hard, too fast, it is because the excesses in the opposite direction are mammoth in comparison."
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Postby Cuguacuarana » Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:43 am

I am not familiar with peta's dark side either, and all of compationate girl's points make good sense to me. If I may say so, Dave, your post seemed unnecessarily condscending, particularly for making no attempt to solidify the claims Prenna and you have made.

I am not an involved animal rights activist, but try to be as informed as possible on matters such as these. I am interested in hearing any evidence against peta, but unsupported claims mean nothing to me.
Austin

"We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane." --Kurt Vonnegut, Breakfast of Champions
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Postby tylerm » Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:50 pm

[quote="compassionategirl"]Please give me an example of a a ridiculous PETA publicity stunt, and a sexist or racist peta campaign.

or evidence that peta is dishonest about vegan clebrities, or evidence that is exploiting the cause for financial gain.


Don't quote me on this, but I think they still call Pamela Anderson a vegan when she eats fish occassionally and drinks milk.. there is a message on here if you search for it that goes into more detail. Apparently they don't want to lose their big celebrities status as 'vegans' or even 'vegetarians' for that matter.

I saw one deal on their site where there was a competition for hottest male and female vegans, or maybe it was just vegetarians. Young twin sisters won, and they had this ridiculous photo shoot with them all holding eachother tight while scantily clad in very sexual ways, in my opinion. Trying to to turn on some people with some lesbian erotica, perhaps. Wrong way to objectify and portray these people as sexual objects and not as compassionate, intelligent people. I actually saw the link from a weightlifting website, and most all the replies were making fun of them and pretty unsavory comments I am sure they wouldn't appreciate.
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Postby Dave Noisy » Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:39 am

Hey again,

To clarify, i'm not a hater of PETA. I hate many of the things PETA does. There are some really great people involved with the group.

I don't know if i've seen your posting on the BK Veggie, which is it?

Sexist: fur trim ad where they show a woman's crotch with lots of 'fur', most of the 'rather go naked' posters, anti-meat poster with a woman holding sausages declaring meat-eaters can't 'get it up'

Ridiculous: beer bottle opener/milk campaign, too tired to think of others, but there are plenty.

Racist: Carol Adams points out how PETA (and others) use black women in certain images to emphasize a 'wild' quality. (Esp. naked tiger theme, there was a recent one.) Most of the women in their posters are white. To be honest, almost every AR group is essentially racist, focusing mainly on white people. There are other examples from PETA however.

Dishonest: Pam Anderson, she is not even vegetarian. They recently misrepresented the Beastie Boys by essentially forging their signatures.

Are you familiar with any of these items?
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Postby JP » Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:32 am

I'll add to the ridiculous: Rather go naked than wear fur, sillyest thing ever for two reasons: firstly it dilutes the message: in a newssnap or peoples memory they only remember people going around naked, not the conditions at a fur farm. Secondly, for most people it shows a fake choice of the privileged, sure those people can go naked for 15 minutes because they will never face the choice.

Offensive campaigns: the sexist ones which have been mentioned already, reducing serious issues to celebrity, sex appeal etc images. And one of the most offensive campaigns have been giving out fur to homeless people or sending fur to iraq. The message is that these people do not have ethics, "they" do not posess the ability to think about the issues on the same level than "us". Like Pete said in a discussion about this issue long time ago Peta people would have got seriously chased out of Brighton if they would have tried it there - many homeless are vegetarian etc and have politics and ethics (gasp!).

Having said all this i think peta does loads of good work and of course most of their work is good stuff and we as activists - like people as a whole - have a tendency to trash the whole group on the basis of few negatives. However, there comes a time where you have to just admit that while you are working for the same goals, you and the group have totally different approaches and ideologies and it is better to part ways.
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Postby Malcolms Billy » Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:41 am

Another one of those "I rather go naked than..." (becoming a bit repetitive). While The Scotsman might spend a few lines on bull fights, I just cannot see the Spanish papers will see it as anything but a highly hilarious stunt. I just fail to see how this would make people seriously think about the running of the bulls. And while they're there, surely the activists will spend money on staying in Pamplona, and spending money on food and drink, thereby contributing to the event :? :?: Whatever it is they'll achieve, I doubt it that this stunt will achieve anything but bad sunburn in some private places for the activists!

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=667652005
Edinburgh Evening News
Fri 17 Jun 2005

We'll show our tough streak to save bulls

ALAN RODEN AND NICOLA STOW

FOR most people, the thought of being seen naked in public is an
embarrassing prospect.

But two Edinburgh women are prepared to throw caution to the wind and
let bare all - to prevent cruelty to bulls.

The dedicated campaigners are about to make the ultimate sacrifice for
animal cruelty by exposing themselves in Spain.

Yvonne Taylor, 33, and Joanne Sim, 20, are to streak through the cobbled
streets of Pamplona wearing nothing but plastic horns on their heads and
red scarves around their necks.

They will join hundreds of other People for the Ethical Treatment of
Animals (PETA) supporters to take part in the human stampede, just two
days before the city's annual Running of the Bulls.

The protest, on July 5, will be the latest in a long-running campaign by
PETA to replace the traditional bull run with a human race to avoid
injuries to the animals.

And, according to organisers, this year's event is expected to attract
the biggest turnout ever.

Miss Taylor, of Leith, said: "This is the first time I've been involved
in something like this, but I feel so strongly that something has to change.

"The majority of people in Spain are against bull fighting and its the
tourists who keep it in existence.

"We want to both educate people visiting the area about what happens to
the bulls - they are slaughtered afterwards - and also show the people
of Pamplona that they don't need to rely on the tourist trade.

"The first Running of the Nudes was held with 20 people four years ago,
and we are expecting 600 people this time."

Miss Sim, an administration officer for Advocate for Animals, said the
group's goal is to let tourists know that there is a "win-win
alternative" to inciting a stampede among panicked animals who end up
being killed in the bullring later in the day.

She added: "I'm very nervous about taking my clothes off and running
through Pamplona, but I really want to stamp out bull fighting so I'm
prepared to strip.

"People in Pamplona think they can't survive without the bulls and we
want to show them that's not the case."

PETA supporters worldwide have written to the mayor of Pamplona, asking
her to embrace a new tradition - the festive, naked "Human Race" -and to
stop abusing bulls, who are terrified by the ordeal and often suffer
serious injuries as they slip when forced to charge down cobbled streets.

And Spanish opposition to bullfighting is mounting. After the Barcelona
City Council voted in April 2004 to ban the primitive blood sport, other
Spanish towns, including Torello, Calldetenes and Olot - with the
second-oldest bullring in Spain - followed suit.

The Running of the Bulls is tourist-driven, but most visitors haven't a
clue about the cruelty that bulls are subjected to before, during and
after the run.

Electric-shock prods and sharp sticks are typically used to torment and
frighten the bulls into a stampede.

As the animals flee, they sustain bruises, cuts and broken bones. In the
bullfights following the run, bulls are often debilitated with
tranquillisers and beatings and have petroleum jelly rubbed in their
eyes so that they are less able to resist their tormentors' attacks.
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Postby daisy » Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:03 am

hi to all,

im sorry that im too stressed that i can post my whole opinion, i only want to show you something which is not completly representative for my opinion:

http://wcm.krone.at/krone/C00/S32/A7/ob ... index.html

die krone is a total mainstream newspaper in austria with a reach of about 50% (which is the total record in europe)
the pic with the naked was even on the frontpage soem day ago. if you go to 'more',70% of the article is totally against bullfight, 30% is dealing with naked.
the text is mainly adapted from the peta press release.

*the things that are remarkalbly for me: this 15minute action succeeded in going of the front page of the krone in austria!!!! and e.g to press agency austria :shock: :D
*the text is mainly against bullfight, not for welfare but for an abolition
*i only know it too good, making demos for months, every week, nearly every day, inthe cold winter, with rain and snow,.......and noone cares from the media :x
*that is something that only peta can achieve (if negative or positive)

in austria the main critisms on peta are some, which weren't mentioned yet: the holocaust campaign. where me for exmaple also don't agree



please dont judge me now, i'll post far more when i have time (quite in uni stress)
although im for sure interested in your reactions

i'm active in AR now for years and i only spend about estimated 2% of the time in peta actions

:)
Last edited by daisy on Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Mary » Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:22 am

[quote]PETA's bank account is not a bottomless pit.

They made a turn over of 23 million dollars last year. Can't remember their profit but that was in the millions too. Why don't you ask Ingrid Newkirk how much money she pays herself?
[quote]My experience with PETA coming to town has been nothing but positive, and I know that, generally, Toronto activists are happy with PETA. Never have I as an activist supporting a PETA demo been treated like shit.

My experience of Peta was that they rolled into Liverpool in the middle of an anti fur campaign, giving out "free fur to the homeless" (marked to show the wearers were homeless) just as we were negotiating getting fur completely banned from the last places selling it, second hand shops. The charity shops backed out of the ban we had agreed, saying if Peta don't mind second hand fur, get your high horse, people continued wearing fur in Liverpool, normalising it again, and now regular retailers are selling it. Peta claimed that as a significant victory for the animal, and treated Liverpool activists like shit - we weren't the experts in our own community - they were. Also, as many liberal thinking people at the time pointed out the whole premise of the fur to the homeless campaign was to demonise the dregs of society as the kind of scum who would wear fur. When Peta gave out fur coats in Iraq Newkirk said that by associating fur with "beaten enemies" she would demonise it in America. The homeless people of Iraq were not enemies, they were victims. This was a racist campaign, and hate mongering. The clothing is marked to label the victims as scum of one sort or another. Why doesn't she just give them a yellow star?

Regarding sexism, if you really cannot see it, I can only assume that you are sexist yourself, and have no problem with women being treated as commodities to be visibly consumed. As a mother by the way I must point out that I am not very happy that my son at the age of eight was sent a picture of a naked porn star faking masturbation on a fake fur rug. That is sexist.

[quote]As for taking the credit, I really don't care who takes credit for what: All I care about is a world that is a better place for animals. This isn't about glory or creditor acknowledgment for me.


Yes, but it is for Peta. People genuinely working for animals burn out with exhaustion, because nobody helps them, since Peta keeps pretending to have done the work. Also, Peta gets sent the money that local campaigners desperately need, and would better deploy. Realfood don't take wages for a start. Since Peta moved to the UK money has dropped for the grassroots campaigners, and even for the nationals. A press stunt attached to another organisation's campaign is not campaigning. They do this to every single national in the UK - for example the fur campaign that I mentioned earlier was CAFT's (Coalition against the fur trade.) Peta never even knew when they came to Liverpool what CAFT was trying to do there with the help of us grassroots folks. Imagine doing a damaging press stunt on fur campaigning without speaking to the national coalition, without knowing or caring what the campaigns in the area were? When Liverpool activists and CAFT wrote trying to explain the situation, Peta refused to even answer. They got their own staff to do the give away. Nobody in the Liverpool area would touch it - but Peta didn't care.

[quote]As far as leaving when the hard work needs to be done - again, PETA has a finite number of bodies and animal exploitation is a global problem. AS activists, do we really need PETA to hold our hand the whole time anyway? When I need info, pamphlets, posters, videos, tips, advice, PETA is there. It sends me what I need, free of charge, asap. The rest is and should be up to me if I am serious about being an activist.


If you are serious about being an activist, stop calling yourself "veg". This makes me think you must still be only vegetarian. You cannot be, as you say, anti speciesist, or a liberationist, if you are not also vegan. And if you are vegan, then use the word with pride.

And also, we have a finite amount of money yet we follow our campaigns right through to the end. Name me a single campaign in which Peta have followed through to the end? Animal testing, Gillette, L'oreal, etc, etc. They stopped their campaign against L'oreal testing because L'oreal's labs were closed, but they carried on testing out of house. Apparently this was a "victory."

[quote]How does PETA encourage support for Murder King?


When Burger King brought out their "veggie burger" Peta endorsed BK by having pop up ads all over the website. I think they took them down when they realised that the burgers had egg products in them, but there was a point when nobody could go on Peta's website without thinking they were a branch of burger king.

[quote]To be clear, I am a non-speciest animal liberationist/rights activist and agree that NO cages are better than bug cages, but certainly, bigger cages are better than small cages. :cry: I would like nothing more than to raid mink farms and free animals right here and now. And while that may shut down the mink farm for a while or even for good, it has not changed the mind or heart of the mink farmer. It has only further alienated him from the cause and probably made him more determined and loathing of animals and animal activists than ever.
How on earth could a mink farmer be further alienated from animal rights than he already is? Who cares what they think? There will always be an unrepentant sinner somewhere. So why leave their victims with them? It is more likely that you don't want to liberate mink farms because you don't want to go to prison. Not a bad reason of course, if your activism outside is worthwhile. I don't want to go to prison. But then I don't tell people I would like nothing more than to liberate places. Don't say something just to be seen to have said it. Public rhetoric is useless. If you are not prepared to act on it, don't say it.
[quote]
when it is not our asses ON THE LINE that are about to be anally electrocuted, it is easy to be a gradualist, a moderate, or whatever label one wants to use.

The welfarist route is gradualist - so moderate in fact that it is going backwards. I wish you had been at our festival yesterday and heard Joan Dunayer. As a vegan campaigner I can tell you, it is easier to turn a meat eater vegan, than a non meat eating, but free range egg eater vegan. Because egg eaters can feel good about themselves, and will for the most part never ever change. And when it comes to "organic free range meat eaters" things are even harder. So why promote these welfarist measures, when they result in more animals being eaten? How self defeating is that?

Yesterday Joan Dunayer, who strongly objects to the sexist, racist campaigns that Peta does, quoted the following, and said that when Peta stand by this principle she loves them.
[quote]
Animals are not ours to eat, wear, experiment on or use in entertainment. This, I beleive (as I think you do as well), is the correct premise on which to rest social change for animals.

As long as they live up to that high and noble standard we should all love them. But they have to remember that activism is about action and thought as well as words.

One final thing. Somewhere on this thread you said that we will never turn everyone vegan. We don't have to. We have to turn enough people vegan that the meat industry loses its profit margin, and cannot keep on going. As it happens we are not far from that. The meat industry keeps on going because of government subsidies, but when we have twenty, thirty percent of the population vegan then the meat industry will have to start putting up their prices. People won't buy as much flesh, because they can't afford it, and we will have a snowball effect of gathering momentum. So the best thing to do is not legitimise flesh consumption, which will keep people using animal products forever. Cut the welfare crap, unless it is truly compatible with rights. This needs us to think.

Peta does good work. It also does harm. It makes us look ridiculous. It fragments the movement. It draws money away from vital grassroots campaigns. People talk about Peta "going naked", not about animals being anally electrocuted. The focus becomes not the suffering of non human animals, but the heroism (or stupidity, depending on the speaker) of Peta People.

I love "meet your meat" by the way. That might be the best thing they have ever done.
If it harms none do as you will.

www.veganbuddies.org.uk
www.realfood.org.uk
www.isitvegan.info
www.arcnews.org.uk
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Mary
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Postby prenna » Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:43 pm

Here's a cut n paste of a post I made online a few months back:

It seems that a lot of you are suckered into supporting PETA and it's activities. You should however be made aware of some of the facts about this organisation.



In a 1992 report by the NCIB, National Charities Investigation Bureau, PETA spent 42% of its organizational expenses on fundraising. Only 20% on actual research and investigation in to animal cruelty.
More current reports examining PETA's tax filings have shown as little as 1% of PETA's total revenue actually goes directly to helping animals; usually small donations to animal clinics or similar organizations. PETA's 2001 tax filings show some interesting donations:

1. Compassion Unlimited Plus Action - Bangalore - Donation - $11.11
2. PETA Research & Education Foundations - Donations $29.16
3. In Defense of Animals - Donation $71.11
4. Virginia Police Defense Fund, Norfolk Police Union - Donation - $150
5. Society for Abolition of Animal Exploitation - Donation - $150
6. Kalamazoo Animal Liberation League - Donation - $150
7. Vieques Humane Society - Donation - $25
8. SNAP - Donation - $50,000

PETA's donations totaled only $206,655.58, but they had a total revenue of almost $14 Million.

PETA spent the following on

1. PETA TV - Expense - $13,268.84
2. Electronic equipment, computers, cameras - Expense- $33,869.24
3. Automobiles - Expense - $148,362.02
4. SNAP Vehicle - Expense - $150,000.00
5. Buildings and improvements - Expense - $295,101.60 (After a $195,000 donation of property)
6. Land - Expense - 94,170.00

It makes one ask the questions, what is PETA really about? Why do they choose to spend more money on promoting themselves than actually helping animals?
In 1999, PETA euthanized 1,325 of the 2,103 animals it took. PETA claimed that euthanizing the cats was much kinder than leaving them in the streets. PETA made the statement that a quick painless death is much better than a slow painful one. However, when hunters or farmers talk of supposedly "quick painless ways of killing animals", PETA calls them barbarians and claim no animal death is justified.

Along with this PETA treat grassroots groups like shit. I've been a part of the animal rights movement for well over six years now and time after time I've seen PETA roll into town to do one of their big publicity stunts. They expect the local grassroots groups to send their people along to help out and then once they've got the publicity (and the boost in donations) they leave again. We real animal activists go back to our day to day on the frontline of the movement with no support from PETA. They are only concerned with money and securing the wages of their directors.

I say to you now, if you want ot get involved in animal rights get in touch with your local group. If there isn't want, get some friends together and start your own thing. There is plenty of sites to get ideas from online.

Don't support PETA, support the animal rights movement.
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Postby prenna » Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:46 pm

I also forgot to mention that at the recent Moby gig the volunteer doing the stall was told that talking to the audience about going vegan and the issues was a secondary consideration to getting them to sign up to the PETA mailing list!?! Not exactly the actions of a group that is concerned with ending animal slavery. It sounds more like they are just about promoting themselves and securing the money to pay their "activists".
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