Westside? training (JP)

[Myrddin]

Hey JP
you've said you do Westside training. What exactly is it? Do you mind outlining your routine, in terms of what days you do each exercise?

Thanks

Adam

[JP]

yeah i'm trying it at the moment, been doing westside for 2 months now and will give it at least another month or so. The routine is more like a sport specific routine for powerlifting and for the big three lifts squat, bench and deadlift. Because of this many of the golden rules which apply to gaining mass and overall strength are not quite ignored but things like isolation exercises are brought in to address weak points.

The idea of westside is that you train your lifts in two ways: maximum effort and dynamic effort, which is basically going heavy and going fast. Squats and deadlifts are coupled together in training days because they recruit basically same musclegroups, and then benching (or pushing) day is a separate one.

Westside is very, very flexible and there are million variations out there and it can be adapted to other purposes as well than just to work your big 3 lifts.

You cycle your max effort and other exercises very often, usually in my case every other week. On max day you do exactly that, go to your max weights or at least 90-95% of your max.

My current routine:

Maximum effort lower body
squats/deadlifts/good mornings (choose one) work up to 3x3 then 4 singles (exept for GM's)
main assistance movement: front squats/rack pulls/good mornings/bottom position squats etc (choose one) 3x6
bentover rows 3x6
heavy core work

Maximum effort pushing day
bench press/weighed dips/bottom position benches, 3x3 and then up to 4 singles.
Standing barbell shoulder presses 3x6
narrow grip benches 3x6
bicep work (biceps are worked so tri's will grow, the antagonistic muscles always need to be worked for the target muscle to grow)

Dynamic effort lower body
speed squats/speed deads/speed bottom position squats or deep squats 9x2x about 50-60% of your 1 rep max.
power cleans or pull ups 3x8
core work

Dynamic effort upper body
speed benches 9x3 x 50-60% 1RM
shoulder work 3x8
tricep work 3x8
bicep work 3x8

Thats a 7-8 day cycle for me.

Note that i'm a beginner in this, though have been reading a lot about it and have then adapted it to my preferences. Westside trainers often swear by box squats, reverse hypers, using bands and chains to add resistance and so on. I'm not too interested in bands and chains because they are there to emulate the lifting suits and shirts. Box squats i haven't made up my mind yet...

more info:
http://www.elitefts.com/
http://www.westside-barbell.com/

[nanoking]

Hi JP,

What was your motivation to try Westside? Just a change of pace or were you hitting a wall?

Who are the general types who do Westside? It doesn't sound like a bodybuilding approach.

What's your current thoughts on periodization? per workout, per muscle, per time?

...just stimulating discussion and forcing myself to reread the current thinking on different subjects.

-NK

[JP]

What was your motivation to try Westside? Just a change of pace or were you hitting a wall?

just to give it a try really. Chaps on this one bodybuilding/strength training message board were banging on about it, so i had to give it a try really. I wasn't hitting a wall as such, but fancied a change.

I still think abbreviated, basic routine has been best for me. But you can't tell unless you try all things...

Who are the general types who do Westside? It doesn't sound like a bodybuilding approach.

yes it's not for a bodybuilder at all, though my upper body has grown nicely on it as have my arms.

Westside is for powerlifters doing the big three lifts, squat, bench and deadlift, so it's a sport specific lifting style. Westside barbell club has produced loads of elite powerlifters over the years so they must be doing something right

What's your current thoughts on periodization? per workout, per muscle, per time?

mate, my opinion hasn't really changed i'm afraid... i still can't see what good does it do to do submaximal work... But hey, plenty of people get good results from it, though less and less powerlifters seem to use it these days.

There are so many good routines and training approaches out there. I have at least 5 different training styles which i want to give a go at some point - at least i wont get bored

[nanoking]

mate, my opinion hasn't really changed i'm afraid... i still can't see what good does it do to do submaximal work...

Starting to remember why I ditched last time...what exactly do you mean by submaximal?

Periodization as I understand it (as I mean it) is cycling through different rep levels, exercises, rest between sets, changing up everything and anything in time.

You should always give 100% effort. 100% intensity in a general sense too, but not 100% in the sense that you should be going to failure every set (maybe to failure by the end of every workout). Tricky distinction I think. Maybe call it 100% concentration?

-NK

[JP]

Starting to remember why I ditched last time...what exactly do you mean by submaximal?

Periodization as I understand it (as I mean it) is cycling through different rep levels, exercises, rest between sets, changing up everything and anything in time.

ok mate, i think we are talking about two different things because i look everything from the strength training perpective because thats the only thing i'm interested in personally. I don't really know anything about cycling rep ranges or rest times, so can't comment on that really, though you have been gaining pretty well on those peridization routines haven't you?

I don't think there's one best training method as such because most often the best method is the one which keeps us going, you know? Motivated, enthusiastic, like you said with 100% concentration? So what might work for you might not work for me and other way around.

Periodization in powerlifting is a training system which cycles often slightly higher rep ranges and lower weights towards new one rep maxes, often these weights are calculated very carefully and so on and in the end in a 3 month cycle you end up doing 1-2 months in submaximal range of weights. Thats what i thought you meant

I'm crap with bodybuilding stuff to be honest - the only thing i can say is that the best muscle mass gains i have made have been when i stopped thinking like a bodybuilder and started moving heavy weights with lowish rep ranges like 5 sets of 5 reps of just couple main exercises per session, but if that wouldn't motivate you, then it probably wouldn't be a good program.

[nanoking]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Good to know there's a powerlifting specific definition of periodization. Context, context, context.

In my defense, it's tough to be precise with me being a hack out of shape amateur and there being conventional definitions for most of these words too.

As per my barking, I was thinking of some flak (real or imagined) I got for touting Dr. Squat's workout. He defines periodization (periodized cycle training) as periodical changes as you advance in your training. He splits say a year's worth of training into 3 "macrocycles", with 4 "mesocycles" per macrocycle, and "microcyclic intensity changes" within each mesocycle.

The microcycles contain A,B,C "intensity level" workouts. The C workouts are "holistic" meaning you don't rest between sets and you go from 5 to 12 to 40 rep sets of different exercises. B is a normal workout with different amounts of 5,12,40 rep sets. A is a light workout with higher numbers of 12 rep sets. All muscle groups are staggered.

He calls it "integrated variable split training" because the variations are rationally thought out ahead of time.

I made great gains on the IVST workout (and working up to it) and hope to get there again. But it wore me out something fierce. It is hardcore. Pulling doubles and such.

I have a problem with overtraining some areas, undertraining others, and general frustrations with overlap. The IVST workout had the whole matrix figured out for me.

It also avoids the plateau I would hit doing strictly 5x5 workouts. I liked hitting and attempting to hypertrophy the other fiber types. It's a tough frame of mind to be in to realize you're always going to be sore. The DOMS are coursing through me...

-NK

[JP]

well, this all would be quite boring if we would be agreeing all the time

Hey nanoking, never come across a book called Dinosaur Training by Brooks Cubik? I think it's the best weight lifting book ever written.

[nanoking]

Heard of DinoTraining, but haven't read it. If it's cheap on Amazon Marketplace I'll pick it up.

I'm all about scientifically controlled fury in the gym.

BTW, I have the word "rage" tattooed on my right forearm. Not specifically vegan related, but it's still cool when in the gym. When did you get yours? What font is yours? lol.

-NK

[JP]

Heard of DinoTraining, but haven't read it. If it's cheap on Amazon Marketplace I'll pick it up.

http://brookskubik.com/

i guess you can get it from there or other training bookstores, don't think it is available at Amazon.

I'm all about scientifically controlled fury in the gym.

hehehee, well, the book is just that - exept for the science part. It's about how the pre-steroid era strongmen and top bodybuilders used to train. It's about the demise of the modern bodybuilding and training methods and bringing some basic simple principles forward again which somehow were forgotten when all the focus went on how the steroid pumped pro's train.

Anyways, hope you could borrow it from someone or something, it's a good laugh as well. And by far the best piece of literature i have ever read about lifting.

BTW, I have the word "rage" tattooed on my right forearm. Not specifically vegan related, but it's still cool when in the gym. When did you get yours? What font is yours? lol.

i got mine a year or so back, don't know the font though, but i'll take a photo of it at some point and put it up. You didn't have a tattoo in the WIP pages did you?

[nanoking]

Don't bring up my WIP pics, people might go look, ugh. I had my tattoo then too. Got it 2/13/98...fishing, fishing, fishing...

bringing basic simple principles forward

sounds a lot like science to me