...or, how I stopped worrying and learned to love the burn

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Re: ...or, how I stopped worrying and learned to love the bu

Postby Alistar » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:32 am

Seem to be doing well with the training considering it's still pretty early in the piece.

Exactly the opposite is happening with our clocks with us having to put them back this Sunday :(
Weathers been great considering the change of season. It's just getting noticeably cooler mornings and evenings but in the middle of the day with the Sun out it's just lovely. Won't last long though...

Yeah that course is just scary. Reckon EPO is probably a prerequisite for such parcours :wink: I just have no idea how you'd even start training for such a race. I have trouble with races half that long with half the climbing! But then I'm terrible with pacing :lol:
Hmmm....I don't know. 30Euros sounds bloody good to me! Cost $NZ100 to do LR or ~ 62Euro :shock:
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Re: ...or, how I stopped worrying and learned to love the bu

Postby ninearms » Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:19 am

I guess a course like that really shows how much harder climbing is on a bike, because as a runner 4500m over 200km sounds almost flat. Compared to something like UTMB or Hardrock which both have around 10,000m ascent over 160km, or Tor des Geants which has 24,000m over 320km, and over much harsher terrain. Of course the downhills are much easier on a bike!
“Begin at the beginning,” the King said gravely, “and go on till you come to the end. Then stop.”
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Re: ...or, how I stopped worrying and learned to love the bu

Postby bob_summers » Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:28 am

Not familiar with those Ninearms but I guess they're another level! The 200km bike route would take me about 8 unpleasant hours but those ultra races are days long aren't they? The 'ehunmileak', a local 100 miler takes anything between 22 and 48hrs http://www.ehunmilak.com/index.php/en/ehunmilak-ing

Climbing's as hard as you make it. I've grovelled up the Tourmalet in bottom gear with empty legs, and suffered nothing more than sunburn. I've also done it hanging off the back of a fast group and been ruined for the next 6 hours!

Al, 30€ seems a bit salty to me but it always depends. If the roads are closed, you get electronic timing, and there is more vegan food than bananas at the feed zones then I'll happily pay it. If it's just a big club run (more and more common here as the police say they can't afford to close roads) then you feel a bit short changed.
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Re: ...or, how I stopped worrying and learned to love the bu

Postby bob_summers » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:11 pm

No midweek training thanks to work.

Fri Cruce OnB 50km

No time for more. Warmed up and tried to hold 33kmh for 1.5h. Got home with 33.3kmh, pleased with that though I'd make a shit timetrialler!

Sat Rekil loop with group 105km

Getting better at hanging with these guys. Got to Bidania just off the back of the first 4, so I was the last to get dropped. Bagged a PB (and a KOM!) for the flat bit and first climb to the village, and another couple or three PBs on the climbs. Seems to be good training. One of the guys is ex pro/DS and did the Camino de Santiago last year in 25hrs (750km or so), holds the record for Quebrantahuesos as well, so not quite in my league!
Bust a spoke with 10km to go, with only 19 left the wheel was a bit tacoed but still turned with the brake disconnected. Wobbled home on the cycle path.

Sun Club run 90km

Easy out with the old boys, met up with some faster guys later and came back over the hills. Tired legs. Talking to a guy who seems to know more about these things than me, has been looking at my HR data on Strava and reckons my max should be around 195. I've been tested at 185, and have never seen more than about 188 (only with dry contacts on the strap, jersey flapping etc). Can it be that I have an extra percent?! Or is he talking rubbish?
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Re: ...or, how I stopped worrying and learned to love the bu

Postby ninearms » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:03 pm

[quote="bob_summers"]Not familiar with those Ninearms but I guess they're another level! The 200km bike route would take me about 8 unpleasant hours but those ultra races are days long aren't they? The 'ehunmileak', a local 100 miler takes anything between 22 and 48hrs http://www.ehunmilak.com/index.php/en/ehunmilak-ing

Climbing's as hard as you make it. I've grovelled up the Tourmalet in bottom gear with empty legs, and suffered nothing more than sunburn. I've also done it hanging off the back of a fast group and been ruined for the next 6 hours!


That race looks pretty gnarly! That's some nice terrain you have there - very jealous! One of the big races on the mountain running calendar, Zegama Aizkorri, right on your doorstep.

Race duration varies a lot: Western States 100 (a downhill course with 5500m climbing and 7000m descent over the 100 miles) has a 30 hr cutoff, and a course record of 14:45. Hardrock 100 (10,000m ascent) has a 48 hour cutoff and a course record of 23:23. Ronda del Cims (13,000m over 170km) has a cutoff of 62 hours but a course record of 30:04(!!!). The race I'm doing next month is a comparatively short 74km but with about 4400m of climbing, an 18hr cutoff and a course record of 6:54.

The Tourmalet is actually a perfect example of what I meant - it tops out at 10% grade, and averages about 7% - that's all really runnable even for average Joes. Anything steeper than around 15% for a sustained period and it starts to become more economical to move on foot, so total climb on a bike is always going to be much more limited by critical slope (hence why at some point you just have to get off and push, because it's easier and quicker). On foot, provided you have the skills, you basically have an unlimited gear selection - you just move from running to power hiking to crawling to climbing.

The violet line below is the race I'm doing next month - check that first climb: 1880m ascent in 17.3km, with a lot of volcanic sand at the start, and first guy through it last year did in in 01:55. Ouch.

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Re: ...or, how I stopped worrying and learned to love the bu

Postby Alistar » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:31 pm

Man those runs look pretty daunting Ninearms! Yeah like you say most climbs in roadcycling races usually average only 4 to 7%. Quite rare to get sections within those much over 12% generally.

Always good training trying to hang onto the back of a Quebrantahuesos record holder Bob! Are you sure he was even puffing? :P

Yeah am not exactly sure of my HRmax either these days after a few different HRmonitors over the yrs, and now my Garmin. Thought it was 187 which seemed unshakeable on my original 1995 "museum piece". Then perhaps as high as 191 or 195 on my last couple of HRmonitors, but concluded 195bpm's was a mis-reading as haven't got anything near that after getting on the Garmin(excluding when it goes beserk, usually when I'm going 70kph down a hill and not pedalling :roll: ).
Think my garmin highscore is around 181 but haven't been taking too much notice. Edit: Just did a little digging in my last few races and hit that magic 187 twice up the same 5min sprint-climb. Could be quite a good indicator, as nothing to save myself for like in a longer climb.

Actually was looking at your HR data and speed up some of those hills a few days ago, and quite impressed at how fast you were going considering your HR was still in the 150's. But I think you were with your fast group at the time which may have helped a little? Anyway seemed to suggest to me your HRmax is more likely in the low to mid 180's rather than the mid 190's? Either that or you're just a fit bastard! :lol:
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Re: ...or, how I stopped worrying and learned to love the bu

Postby bob_summers » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:25 pm

Ninearms, that sounds like a nasty little race you're doing! Will follow your progress. Thinking about it, off road running profiles are probably more similar to XC mountain bike races. I did one (part of the Basque MTB Marathon champs) a couple of years back which climbed getting on for 3000m in 60km, without ever going over 800m! This pic (not me, I was pushing...) shows how steep - the road in the background is flat..
Image

Al, I think mid 180s is about right. Surely you don't find out one day that your max was actually 5% higher! Anyway, it's kind of moot. I can't seem to get the HR up to max at the moment, certainly can't hold it up near max for very long.

Weds: Aia loop 55km

Pleased with this. Had glued a new tyre and only given it a couple of hours to cure, so was very cautious on the descents. Got home to find I'd missed my PB (for the 52km middle section) by only 4 seconds. I'd also got stuck behind a cement truck. Picked up a couple of other PBs on the way (including a downhill which I was supposed to be taking it easy on...). I'm probably doing Donostia-Baiona-Donostia on Sunday so should ease off until then, although I might just treat it as training - been invited to ride it with some guys from a U18 team so that should make for a spectacular arse kicking. Sadly it has lost two climbs from last year (no Col du Ibardin, nor Col du Lizuniaga), but still does two passes of Jaizkibel, and a couple of short but sweet French ones. Lovely roads that I don't ride so often as I'm sure French drivers are getting less tolerant of cyclists - had a couple of nasty incidents in winter - so quite keen to do it on closed roads.

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Re: ...or, how I stopped worrying and learned to love the bu

Postby Alistar » Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:06 pm

Good luck for Sunday!
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Re: ...or, how I stopped worrying and learned to love the bu

Postby bob_summers » Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:30 pm

Cheers Al, bit of a change of plan and did it "just riding along", enjoyed it more than I ever have! Met a friend before the start & he was with some u23s from the club who did it at 34kmh... bit fast for us oldies so we just found a decent bunch and did the social thing.

So...

Fri 50km easy

Sat 125km with fast group, Meagas Aizarna Iturburu Andatzarrate
Started pretty hot, then one guy punctured on the Aizarna climb (brand new 100€ tubular, ooof). Cue about 20mins of roadside faffage as it didn't seal with goop, then the valve broke on a spare... leaving us with one spare between three of us on tubs. Easy pace after that til we hit Andatzarrate. Tried to stay with the first group, managed until halfway when they started attacking each other and that was that.

Sun 125km Donosti-Baiona-Donostia
As above. Maybe should've ridden it harder as the weather was perfect - cool start and warmed up just enough, not so much that you end up overdressed on the last climb. Spent over 50% in zone 2!

Mon 55km Zarautz
Did a recovery ride with the local youth teams (ie cadetes, juniors and u23s) who had all had varying levels of success over the weekend. I think the cadetes did best, 2nd and 3rd in their race. Good fun, chatted to a few who were trying out their English, quite impressed with how well-drilled they were as 30 odd riders on the road can be a bit chaotic.

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Re: ...or, how I stopped worrying and learned to love the bu

Postby Alistar » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:26 am

Yeah it does look like your race was on Saturday and your training ride was on Sunday. Is that 190bpm's legit? Looks like it from the profile.

Glad you had a good time :)
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Re: ...or, how I stopped worrying and learned to love the bu

Postby bob_summers » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:14 am

yeah, that could be 190bpm. Uphill so unlikely to be a flapping jersey. We went for a sprint, I timed my effort thinking the top was closer than it was :oops: so I guess it was from then!

Weds Basakabi loop, 100km

Very pleased with this, but maybe wind assisted. It was a twice weekly loop I did a couple of winters ago, and have hardly done it since so a good yardstick (I had a pretty good 2012 season). Had to beat my PB of 1h42 to the top (50km x 1000m more or less), and crack 30kmh avg for the full loop.
Had a good tailwind into Tolosa but was slightly against me for most of the climb. Didn't set any PBs for the individual climbs, but went over the top 6 mins faster than my PB. Apart from a couple of climbs it's all downhill from there, but the descent is narrow and poorly surfaced so holding the 30kmh avg isn't so easy. Legs weren't good on the climbs and I had to grovel into the wind for the last hour but I stopped the clock with 31.2kmh avg so job done on both counts!

Fri Hills 110km

Easy out, riding with the young guns in the club (ie Cadetes, under 17s). Left them at Orio, did four climbs from 0m-300/350m and none of them very well. Temps were climbing and I was dressed for the 8º which were showing on my bedroom window at 8am.

Sat Zumaia Igeldo 80km

Fast group again, but I had a 12pm curfew. Thought we had the ultimate Euskaltel fanboy with us, but soon realised it was Astarloza (he goes with this group every now and then). For the first time ever I timed the sprint to Meagas right, went from 100m out knowing where the line was, and that half the bunch had been gapped, and 'won' - but it was more a case of being gifted it.. not sure it's good form for pros to beat club riders! For a retired rider though he can belt out some watts, pulling the group up a false flat at 50kmh with nobody able to go round to take a pull. I was running out of time so turned off and had an easy spin home via Igeldo.
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Se envejece cuando se deja de pedalear"
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