Lance Armstrong - what?!

[Konstantin]

I've only seen the headlines but are they really going to strip him of his entire career including seven Tour de France victories? Hard to believe, and is it fair?

[tal]

Also hard to believe that he was the only one. Who's going to get the win, the guy who came 50th?

[fredrikw]

[quote="Talyn"]Also hard to believe that he was the only one.

[ninearms]

The whole thing is disgusting. Doping is a foul, not a crime, and punishment of fouls should be instigated on the field of play at the time of the offence. If a foul isn't spotted at the time then it should be dropped. Imagine if FIFA finally decided to use video replay evidence and applied it retrospectively. Would it be appropriate to declare the 1996 World Cup Quarter Final between England and Argentina void, because everyone knows Argentina's first goal should have been disallowed but officials didn't spot it, and demand Argentina relinquish the World Cup and hand it over to Germany even though in the 1990 World Cup Germany were even bigger cheaters than Argentina were in 1986?

I suspect he's stopped fighting the charges because:

a) He's genuinely sick and tired of doing it.
b) If he takes it to arbitration, maintains his innocence, and is then found "guilty", especially as part of a larger conspiracy, then he could end up in the same situation as Marion Jones for having lied under oath.

Where does this nonsense end? Retrospective investigation of all successful athletes over the last 20 years?

[ninearms]

[quote="Talyn"]Also hard to believe that he was the only one. Who's going to get the win, the guy who came 50th?

[quote="ninearms"][quote="Talyn"]Also hard to believe that he was the only one. Who's going to get the win, the guy who came 50th?

[JP]

feel sorry for him

aye no doubt he was using etc, but still, what an incredible athlete. Maybe this way he could maintain at least some credibility instead of being crucified after the trials?

[Konstantin]

Is it me or is the whole thing a mess?

It seems that everyone at the top is using and if you're not, you cannot win. The ones who get caught are the ones who mask it worst or who make daft mistakes. Therefore, there is no value in having a ban as it only affects those who make mistakes.

What should the authorities do moving forwards?

[Orkje]

[quote="ninearms"]

I think this is the most reasoned, non-puritanical take on the situation I've read:

http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/20 ... #more-3905

[skoptic]

It does seem like a mess - I'm not convinced about their ability to strip his titles. I'm also very suspicious, but agree that it's impossible to judge something so far in the past.

Interesting article and I hear what you're saying ninearms, but in my heart I think doping is a 'crime' rather than a 'foul'.

The article seems to have a circular argument, validating the use of doping, because it's prevalent, part of the spirit of the Tour and unless you do it you can't keep up. I don't agree with this logic - that doesn't mean I have a practical solution to the situation, but this implies that a history of action and a misguided belief that 'this is right' provides validity for any situation. Not for me.... not for a lot of history either.

It also sidelines the "does the sport become less interesting or valuable" question into mostly about interest. It all becomes less valuable in my opinion - and over the past 20 years the public seem to have echoed this.

Also don't agree that the examples of boxing/shooting differing from running and biking. Beta blockers and fear reducing drugs might help enhance the effect of competing rather than the effect of training, but blood doping enhances the effect of competing. Everyone still has to train hard. This analogy doesn't fully work for me.

Still lots of good food for thought, and I'm not completely slating the article - just a few bits I liked, few bits I didn't Maybe it's heart over head, but I'm still not in a position to chuck in the towel and accept doping as part of valuable sport to which I aspire.

[skoptic]

[quote="Konstantin"]The ones who get caught are the ones who mask it worst or who make daft mistakes. Therefore, there is no value in having a ban as it only affects those who make mistakes.

[Hiking Fox]

This reminds me why I love sport, but hate sporting competitions.

[runner]

different is that armstrong is being taken in by his national antidoping org, while contador is being protected by the spanish federation. like all other athletes who dope are protected by the spanish federations (marta domingez etc etc).

life ban for people who get caught, medicall and other people involved + pay back prize money, sponsor contracts... might help.
use the funds for sports promotion and eduction for kids.

[muchluv]

A kick in the face for everyone who has looked up to this man as a hero and inspiration, after recovering from testicular cancer and going on to win the tour de france seven times. Those people are victims of this too. Now, so many people will disregard him and be dissapointed with him, without knowing, (if what is said in this thread is true) that it is commonplace.

[ninearms]

[quote="muchluv"]A kick in the face for everyone who has looked up to this man as a hero and inspiration, after recovering from testicular cancer and going on to win the tour de france seven times. Those people are victims of this too. Now, so many people will disregard him and be dissapointed with him, without knowing, (if what is said in this thread is true) that it is commonplace.