CRON-O-Meter: Free nutrition counting sofware

Any queries about vegan diet, nutrition, dieting, bulking and healthy eating in general. Diets and food from vegan perspective.

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Re: CRON-O-Meter: Free nutrition counting sofware

Postby Lordmuppet » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:52 am

has anyone managed to add new custom foods (not recipes) with this?

I've tried and can't figure it out all the macros are greyed out and I can't see how to fix that. Very frustrating :(

Had a google and found someone with same problem but no solution

edited to say: my problem was that i was using some crappy downloadable version. Online version works fine.
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Re: CRON-O-Meter: Free nutrition counting sofware

Postby beforewisdom » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:34 am

FWIW, CRON-O-METER is basically a front end ( a very fancy front end ) to the online USDA Nutrition Database, which until recently had a fairly primitive web site front end.

Now the USDA Nutrition Database has a much nicer and faster web site:
http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/list
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Re:

Postby jpowell » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:54 am

[quote="Fallen_Horse"] my broccoli has more protein per 100cals than their steak! ;)


This is the point... and frankly, I believe nutrient dense foods are an indispensable part of any truly optimal nutrition program (aka "diet" but that term is, for me, so vague and negative), even a very high calorie one. Hopefully the more energy you consume, the more you burn exercising, so the more antioxidants, minerals, etc., even vitamins, will also benefit you.

Arguments like this, especially with hard data that people can relate to their actual food intake and/or actual nutritional needs, carry much more strength than oft-repeated highly debatable catch phrases like "F&V have lots of vitamins" or "fibre is 'good' for you".

Additionally, if there are things you are trying to limit, e.g. omega6s or sodium (the "things" may be different for different people, but those 2 should be fairly common!) then comparing available positive nutrients to quantities of those things is more useful than "eat X Y Z avoid A B C".

There are of course limitations:
- Mineral supplements (e.g. calcium fortified soy milk) seem ridiculously high compared to the amount of said minerals likely absorbed
- Some foods can limit absorption of some substances, e.g. nutritive iron and calcium content of spinach are probably not nearly as good as they look, due to oxalates, (neither is calcium in milk, due to the types of protein), whereas brassicas are better.
- The value of calculating your "protein" intake is highly debatable is you actually have a high protein need. Perhaps you should consider some of the key aminos as well, especially Essential Amino Acids, at least Lysine.
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Re: CRON-O-Meter: Free nutrition counting sofware

Postby jpowell » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:59 am

[quote="beforewisdom"]

CRON-O-Meter is cross platform ... free software ... as in "freedom" ... also free as in "free of charge".

It was made by a programmer who is also into CRON ( calorie restriction with optimum nutrition ). Those people believe that life can be extended by eating fewer calories while still getting the same amount of nutrients.

You don't have to cut back on your calories to use this tool, but it is very useful
...
http://spaz.ca/cronometer


Wow, very interesting. I did not realize that. I have found the web app version extremely useful and educational, but the original desktop version sounds better. I shall have to try it.
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Re: Re:

Postby beforewisdom » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:17 am

[quote="jpowell"][quote="Fallen_Horse"] my broccoli has more protein per 100cals than their steak! ;)


This is the point... and frankly, I believe nutrient dense foods are an indispensable part of any truly optimal nutrition program (aka "diet" but that term is, for me, so vague and negative), even a very high calorie one.


I'm not an expert and I am sure this opinion will make me a heretic, but I don't think calorie density is a very PRACTICAL way evaluate nutrition.

A good example is lettuce, which is high in nutrient per calorie, but also very low calorie. By calorie density it looks like a wonderful choice for people seeking increased nutrition, but on a practical level it is hard to eat that much lettuce all of the time.

The situation is probably even more so with broccoli as it is higher in bulk and harder to digest. Broccoli may have more protein per calorie than a steak, but it would be a lot more practical.....and comfortable to able to eat enough steak (make mine vegan) to get X amount of protein than it would with broccoli.
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Re: Re:

Postby Goob » Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:47 pm

[quote="beforewisdom"][quote="jpowell"][quote="Fallen_Horse"] my broccoli has more protein per 100cals than their steak! ;)


This is the point... and frankly, I believe nutrient dense foods are an indispensable part of any truly optimal nutrition program (aka "diet" but that term is, for me, so vague and negative), even a very high calorie one.


I'm not an expert and I am sure this opinion will make me a heretic, but I don't think calorie density is a very PRACTICAL way evaluate nutrition.

A good example is lettuce, which is high in nutrient per calorie, but also very low calorie. By calorie density it looks like a wonderful choice for people seeking increased nutrition, but on a practical level it is hard to eat that much lettuce all of the time.

The situation is probably even more so with broccoli as it is higher in bulk and harder to digest. Broccoli may have more protein per calorie than a steak, but it would be a lot more practical.....and comfortable to able to eat enough steak (make mine vegan) to get X amount of protein than it would with broccoli.


I eat a pound of broccoli (~100 calories) almost every day, so I can say from experience, it's not an efficient source of protein. To get the amount of protein I eat in a day, I'd need to up that to something like 20 pounds of broccoli EVERY day. I think that is a lethal dose.
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Re: CRON-O-Meter: Free nutrition counting sofware

Postby jpowell » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:24 pm

Valid point about the lettuce. Common sense is always required. In regards to Broccoli and protein, I hope no-one was suggesting it as a sole or primary source. Apart from anything else, the protein quality's not there (to my mind the best way to properly understand that is by looking at amino acid content of foods compared against that of your diet overall and your needs, which, again, you can do with tools like cronometer, rather than letting someone else tell you "X" protein is "best", "you must eat complete proteins" and other such over-simplifications that often seem to make really good vegan nutrition seem harder than it is.

Should you eat nutrient dense foods exclusively? Probably not.

Is broccoli the ideal poster child for nutrient dense foods? Probably not.

Can broccoli make a good contribution to protein in your diet? Sure! 500g of broccoli has about half as much protein as you can digest in one sitting anyway, or about 20-30% of the total protein requirement for most lightly active/inactive people or some light weight, highly active, endurance athletes.

How much broccoli can you really eat? Well, I reckon 2kg a day isn't hard at all, unless you have to eat it raw, but substituting a range of other similar or better nutrient density vegetables would surely be a vast improvement.

Do we all need 282g of protein a day (10kg of broccoli)? No, this seems reasonable but high for a heavy strength athlete, very high for most athletes, and scarily, unhealthily high, for just about anyone else.

Will 10kg of broccoli kill you? Well.... somehow I doubt it literally would

Oh, and by the way... things look much better for nutrient dense foods if you take things like minerals or B vitamins as examples, rather than protein. They are extremely important, too, and sometimes used as reasons for the alleged inadequacy of a vegan diet. Turns out, if you eat almost exclusively very calorie dense vegan foods, they could well be an issue, but with a few well selected nutrient dense foods, no problem!

As for anyone who honestly believes that single form factory chelated minerals, artificial B & E vitamins and sodium ascorbate are complete substitutes for nutrients from food... they're probably not going to care much about other sensible nutritional issues like types of fat either... so the cheapest nutrition option is still vegan.... peanuts, the cheapest grains you can find, the cheapest beans you can find and load up on all those supplements. No need for data then, but in the extreme, I can't see this approach working particularly well.
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Re: CRON-O-Meter: Free nutrition counting sofware

Postby ninearms » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:46 am

[quote="jpowell"]500g of broccoli has about half as much protein as you can digest in one sitting anyway.


I'm surprised you said this as you seem to be well read, but that's a myth that needs to die. More protein just takes longer to digest.
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Re: CRON-O-Meter: Free nutrition counting sofware

Postby fredrikw » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:39 am

I have always wondered what "one sitting" means. Does it refer to activity of sitting down and it ends when you stand up, or is it a fairly arbitrary unit of time meaning the average time of a meal (ranging from three minutes to 2-3 hours)?
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Re: CRON-O-Meter: Free nutrition counting sofware

Postby beforewisdom » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:43 pm

According the USDA Nutrition Database 1 pound ( about 453 grams, about 3 cups chopped) of COOKED broccoli only has about 11grams of protein ( 160 calories ). That doesn't even make it a good choice as a protein source for 1 meal.
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Re: CRON-O-Meter: Free nutrition counting sofware

Postby jpowell » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:58 am

[quote="beforewisdom"]According the USDA Nutrition Database 1 pound ( about 453 grams, about 3 cups chopped) of COOKED broccoli only has about 11grams of protein ( 160 calories ). That doesn't even make it a good choice as a protein source for 1 meal.


How so? Already stipulated that it's not a good primary protein source (and the amino profile is another pretty good reason why), but a great source for other nutrients as well. Is 11g in a meal (or, as an example, possibly 45-50g per day if you are eating plenty of greens at 4 meals) not a useful contribution to protein intake? Last I checked, the recommendations from dietitians and sports nutritionists were 0.8-2.0g/kg bodyweight p.d., depending mainly on type of training/activity, possibly about 10% more for vegans on a varied diet. Therefore, for example, a 45kg gymnast, a 60kg triathlete or an 80kg office worker may do fine on noticeably under 100g of protein per day.

If you eat a good range and quantity of foods, the nutrients do actually start to add up, even macronutrients. :)
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Re: CRON-O-Meter: Free nutrition counting sofware

Postby jpowell » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:06 am

[quote="ninearms"][quote="jpowell"]500g of broccoli has about half as much protein as you can digest in one sitting anyway.


I'm surprised you said this as you seem to be well read, but that's a myth that needs to die. More protein just takes longer to digest.


You caught me out on this one. After some googling and cross-verification, it seems there is no clear limit to how much protein can be absorbed from a meal, certainly not 30g. I don't know why I always just believed that. I would not say I am extremely well read on nutrition, but I normally like to pride myself on a critical but open viewpoint and have certainly tried to read up enough to be reasonably well informed. Perhaps this was one of the first wrong concepts I came across in nutrition guidance, before I saw how controversial many things are and started to become increasingly skeptical about different points of view.
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Re: CRON-O-Meter: Free nutrition counting sofware

Postby Lordmuppet » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:36 am

[quote="jpowell"][quote="ninearms"][quote="jpowell"]500g of broccoli has about half as much protein as you can digest in one sitting anyway.


I'm surprised you said this as you seem to be well read, but that's a myth that needs to die. More protein just takes longer to digest.


You caught me out on this one. After some googling and cross-verification, it seems there is no clear limit to how much protein can be absorbed from a meal, certainly not 30g. I don't know why I always just believed that. I would not say I am extremely well read on nutrition, but I normally like to pride myself on a critical but open viewpoint and have certainly tried to read up enough to be reasonably well informed. Perhaps this was one of the first wrong concepts I came across in nutrition guidance, before I saw how controversial many things are and started to become increasingly skeptical about different points of view.


interesting. I had originally taken jpowell's view based on the fact John Berandi's Precision Nutrition endorses it.

Here is their argument. Would be interested to hear responses from you guys.

"We can only store so much protein at one time. As the graph below shows, the body’s protein stores fluctuate over the course of a day. Notice how the upper limit never increases; the amount of protein in the body just cycles up and down as we eat or fast

Image

The take-home here is that you can’t simply eat a 16-pound steak (a la Homer Simpson consuming “Sirloin A Lot”) once and be done with it. The body needs its protein stores to be continually replenished, which means that you should consume moderate amounts of protein at regular intervals – which just happens to be an important Precision Nutrition guideline" Precision Nutrition "All about Protein"

they are getting the graphic from here Millward DJ. Optimal intakes of protein in the human diet. Proc Nutr Soc 1999;58:403-413.
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CRON-O-Meter: Free nutrition counting sofware

Postby ninearms » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:53 am

[quote="Lordmuppet"]interesting. I had originally taken jpowell's view based on the fact John Berandi's Precision Nutrition endorses it.


JP has changed his position on meal frequency now because the research doesn't support it. PN recently brought out a free book on intermittent fasting and JP still fasts a couple of days a week.
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Re: CRON-O-Meter: Free nutrition counting sofware

Postby Lordmuppet » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:27 am

[quote="ninearms"][quote="Lordmuppet"]interesting. I had originally taken jpowell's view based on the fact John Berandi's Precision Nutrition endorses it.


JP has changed his position on meal frequency now because the research doesn't support it. PN recently brought out a free book on intermittent fasting and JP still fasts a couple of days a week.


you meant JB right?

shame they didn't update the articles :(
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