Cutters Corner

Any queries about vegan diet, nutrition, dieting, bulking and healthy eating in general. Diets and food from vegan perspective.

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Re: Cutters Corner

Postby JP » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:36 am

THE PLAN!

to lose 3ish kg of fat *only*. Suggestions? Slow and steady?
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Re: Cutters Corner

Postby baldy » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:40 am

JP wrote:THE PLAN!

to lose 3ish kg of fat *only*. Suggestions? Slow and steady?

2 week trip to a virus infected part of Africa or maybe this?
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Re: Cutters Corner

Postby Talyn » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:41 am

JP wrote:THE PLAN!

to lose 3ish kg of fat *only*. Suggestions? Slow and steady?


Yeah, six weeks should be enough.
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Re: Cutters Corner

Postby ida » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:48 pm

fredrikw wrote:
JP wrote:weight loss due to that is largely waterweight so its not really cutting :)

I'd say that depends how long your stomach is misbehaving, "just before" sure, but almost a full week probably mean loss of more than just water.


Agree. Scale showed my lowest post-workout weight for about 5 years this evening, and then I been back eating and drinking like a normal person for about a week so all fluids should be back where they were before stomach bug. (Plus that I ate a huge vegan blueberry bun this morning at work, which must count for something :) ) Will be interesting to see if I will maintain this weight when getting back into training full speed again, or if I will regain my lost kg's.
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Re: Cutters Corner

Postby wannalift » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:20 am

JP wrote:THE PLAN!

to lose 3ish kg of fat *only*. Suggestions? Slow and steady?


Nutrition:

1. Beginner: Absolutely no junk calories.
2. Intermediate: Go on a diet. In addition to no junk calories, remove the pasta, white bread/rice, breads and especially CAKES! Less calories.
3. Advanced: Oh, so you are serious about this? Try the zone diet (30/30/40 protein/fat/carbs). Best diet for a strength athlete looking to get lean and keep muscle. Yes, you will really have to cut down on carbs and get more healthy fats in your diet. Get ready for 1.0+ grams protein per lb body weight. Enjoy your sexy new body.

Cardio:

1. Beginner: Walk/bike more often. Get some regular cardio sessions in.
2. Intermediate: Metcons or Sprints. For metcons, at the end of your strength workout try something like 7 clean (with squat) & press followed by 10 jump squats (no weight) followed by 5-10 pull ups. Repeat for 5 rounds. Very minimal breaks. For sprints, try running hill sprints or sprint intervals on a bike trainer. Very hard intervals of 15-30 seconds in length followed by 2-3 minutes of rest. 8 intervals or so should do.
3. Advanced: Why not metcons, sprints AND light spinning sessions? You could do the metcons & sprints 3 x week on the same day and do the light spinning/jogging/walking sessions 3 other days per week. YOU'RE AN ANIMAL!!!

Good luck.
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Re: Cutters Corner

Postby JP » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:31 am

i do nail more than 1 gram of protein per lb of bodyweight already actually, so would just need to cut teh calories out from elsewhere...

I'd like to point out that 3kg is very small drop percentage wise from my 110 morning bodyweight :D

good tips cheers!
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Re: Cutters Corner

Postby Talyn » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:29 am

wannalift wrote:
JP wrote:THE PLAN!

to lose 3ish kg of fat *only*. Suggestions? Slow and steady?


Nutrition:

1. Beginner: Absolutely no junk calories.
2. Intermediate: Go on a diet. In addition to no junk calories, remove the pasta, white bread/rice, breads and especially CAKES! Less calories.
3. Advanced: Oh, so you are serious about this? Try the zone diet (30/30/40 protein/fat/carbs). Best diet for a strength athlete looking to get lean and keep muscle. Yes, you will really have to cut down on carbs and get more healthy fats in your diet. Get ready for 1.0+ grams protein per lb body weight. Enjoy your sexy new body.

Cardio:

1. Beginner: Walk/bike more often. Get some regular cardio sessions in.
2. Intermediate: Metcons or Sprints. For metcons, at the end of your strength workout try something like 7 clean (with squat) & press followed by 10 jump squats (no weight) followed by 5-10 pull ups. Repeat for 5 rounds. Very minimal breaks. For sprints, try running hill sprints or sprint intervals on a bike trainer. Very hard intervals of 15-30 seconds in length followed by 2-3 minutes of rest. 8 intervals or so should do.
3. Advanced: Why not metcons, sprints AND light spinning sessions? You could do the metcons & sprints 3 x week on the same day and do the light spinning/jogging/walking sessions 3 other days per week. YOU'RE AN ANIMAL!!!

Good luck.


Provided overall caloric intake is managed and there is a deficit, there is no reason to remove the foods you listed: junk food, cakes, white/bread pasta from a diet.
As long as you hit sufficient protein and fats, and the majority of your food is healthy, these 'taboo' foods are totally fine - and in the interest of staying sane / not having your diet control your life - should be recommended.

The rest of your advice is sound, but I felt compelled to call you out on that point.
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Re: Cutters Corner

Postby wannalift » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:52 am

JP wrote:i do nail more than 1 gram of protein per lb of bodyweight already actually, so would just need to cut teh calories out from elsewhere...

I'd like to point out that 3kg is very small drop percentage wise from my 110 morning bodyweight :D

good tips cheers!


I figured you were already getting enough protein. I'm actually at 1.5g/lb myself, but since you are heavier than me I didn't want to advise you to take in enough protein to shut your kidneys down. Since your protein is adequate, you just need to substitute the carbs for fats. Give it an honest try for 30 days and the results will speak for themselves. If you make the proper substitutions then you won't have to cut out much in terms of overall calories, especially if you add in the extreme cardio.
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Re: Cutters Corner

Postby wannalift » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:59 am

Talyn wrote:
wannalift wrote:
JP wrote:THE PLAN!

to lose 3ish kg of fat *only*. Suggestions? Slow and steady?


Nutrition:

1. Beginner: Absolutely no junk calories.
2. Intermediate: Go on a diet. In addition to no junk calories, remove the pasta, white bread/rice, breads and especially CAKES! Less calories.
3. Advanced: Oh, so you are serious about this? Try the zone diet (30/30/40 protein/fat/carbs). Best diet for a strength athlete looking to get lean and keep muscle. Yes, you will really have to cut down on carbs and get more healthy fats in your diet. Get ready for 1.0+ grams protein per lb body weight. Enjoy your sexy new body.

Cardio:

1. Beginner: Walk/bike more often. Get some regular cardio sessions in.
2. Intermediate: Metcons or Sprints. For metcons, at the end of your strength workout try something like 7 clean (with squat) & press followed by 10 jump squats (no weight) followed by 5-10 pull ups. Repeat for 5 rounds. Very minimal breaks. For sprints, try running hill sprints or sprint intervals on a bike trainer. Very hard intervals of 15-30 seconds in length followed by 2-3 minutes of rest. 8 intervals or so should do.
3. Advanced: Why not metcons, sprints AND light spinning sessions? You could do the metcons & sprints 3 x week on the same day and do the light spinning/jogging/walking sessions 3 other days per week. YOU'RE AN ANIMAL!!!

Good luck.


Provided overall caloric intake is managed and there is a deficit, there is no reason to remove the foods you listed: junk food, cakes, white/bread pasta from a diet.
As long as you hit sufficient protein and fats, and the majority of your food is healthy, these 'taboo' foods are totally fine - and in the interest of staying sane / not having your diet control your life - should be recommended.

The rest of your advice is sound, but I felt compelled to call you out on that point.


I am on a mobile phone now, but later I will be happy to post some medical literature about why those foods you say are okay to eat are total garbage and should be avoided by anyone who is serious about their health/performance. In summary though, try doing both methods (the one I proposed and the one you endorse) for 30 days each and see for yourself which one is optimal.
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Re: Cutters Corner

Postby Talyn » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:20 pm

wannalift wrote:I am on a mobile phone now, but later I will be happy to post some medical literature about why those foods you say are okay to eat are total garbage and should be avoided by anyone who is serious about their health/performance. In summary though, try doing both methods (the one I proposed and the one you endorse) for 30 days each and see for yourself which one is optimal.


I look forward to reviewing the literature you will soon provide.

I didn't really clarify what method I endorse, so I will clarify it for you so perhaps you could try it for 30 days yourself and see what you prefer.

The position I endorse is that protein should be at at least 1g per day per lb of BW, fat is at least 0.4-0.5g per day per lb of BW, and the rest of the daily intake is from whatever source you like, as long as the total is less than your maintenance enough to create a deficit. Healthy food is always best, but if you want a bit of cake, and can fit it in, go for it. I don't follow anything more rigid than that, because I'm interested in not being obsessed with my diet, and also don't want other people that read this to assume that there is one true way.
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Re: Cutters Corner

Postby JP » Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:41 pm

...i really dont think i need to do anything special to shed meagre 3kg of fat...

maybe i should be in the "beginner" section in this anyway :D

which means if i leave out my daily bag of crisps, soda and flapjack, that should do it already! (apart from being hungry for something else)
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Re: Cutters Corner

Postby blinki » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:54 pm

noob question but how important is getting enough fat while cutting?

I plan to loose a little fat before the summer (probably 2.5-3kg max) for reasons of vanity. Even on 2800 calories I barely get 0.4g fat per lbs. When I do it's for processed stuff and sweets which will be going. Would I be making life harder for myself by not adding some nuts or seeds? I don't really like them so would grudge them taking up my calories
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Re: Cutters Corner

Postby Fallen_Horse » Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:23 pm

Do you like olives and avocado?
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Re: Cutters Corner

Postby Talyn » Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:40 pm

Fallen_Horse wrote:Do you like olives and avocado?


+1

hommus
peanut butter
almond butter

If anything, I find it way too easy to eat too much fat!
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Re: Cutters Corner

Postby wannalift » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:02 pm

Talyn wrote:
wannalift wrote:I am on a mobile phone now, but later I will be happy to post some medical literature about why those foods you say are okay to eat are total garbage and should be avoided by anyone who is serious about their health/performance. In summary though, try doing both methods (the one I proposed and the one you endorse) for 30 days each and see for yourself which one is optimal.


I look forward to reviewing the literature you will soon provide.

I didn't really clarify what method I endorse, so I will clarify it for you so perhaps you could try it for 30 days yourself and see what you prefer.

The position I endorse is that protein should be at at least 1g per day per lb of BW, fat is at least 0.4-0.5g per day per lb of BW, and the rest of the daily intake is from whatever source you like, as long as the total is less than your maintenance enough to create a deficit. Healthy food is always best, but if you want a bit of cake, and can fit it in, go for it. I don't follow anything more rigid than that, because I'm interested in not being obsessed with my diet, and also don't want other people that read this to assume that there is one true way.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18175766
http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/167/21/2310
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17636786

Refined white flour contains a large proportion of high glycemic index (GI) carbohydrates. Consuming these carbohydrates cause sugars to be released quickly into the bloodstream. This causes a rapid rise in blood sugar levels and your body's response is a rapid release of the sugar-regulating hormone insulin. Insulin is the body's primary regulator of fat metabolism and controls LPL (lipoprotein lipase) that pulls fat into a cell. The more insulin we secrete makes LPL more active on the fat cells. Essentially, when insulin levels go up, our body tells us to store fat. This combined with a host of other biochemical reactions in your body causes your metabolism to decrease with foods of high glycemic index. The effects of such obviously scale up to one's individual intake of such.

For the record, I have primarily followed the diet that you are endorsing for years (minus the junk food plus a lower than average intake of refined carbs). It's good, better than most, but my results (although preliminary) after lowering the carbs and upping the protein/fat are much much better.
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