Traditional (not BJJ) Jiu Jitsu for basic self defence

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Traditional (not BJJ) Jiu Jitsu for basic self defence

Postby Lordmuppet » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:34 am

So I've been going to the traditional jiu jitsu place for a month or two now. The people and sensei are great and I enjoy it but I am worried about some things. Your advice would be appreciated :)

So basically I want something for self defense. I'm strong for my size but I'm (currently anyway) rather small (-70kg) and am very conscious of not knowing how to handle myself.

Here is the place I go to http://www.edinburghjitsu.com/

My worries (which I picked up after reading a thread over at http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthr ... 907&page=1)

include the following

a) we don't spar beyond practicing particular techniques with a partner who is as compliant as you need or resists as you need. To be fair we also do a 'grinder' at least once a week where either novices or grades have the whole dojo run at them one by one and you have to throw them. Again though people are as compliant or as realistic as you feel you can cope with.
b) The warm up seems excessive to me (it is at least 30 minutes maybe longer out of a 2 hour class) and irritates a little as I could do this in my own time. I'm probably not being patient enough about this though and I'm sure it's important to get warmed up properly.
c) I spend an insane amount of time learning how to do forward, backwards and sideways rolls. Again I'm probably being impatient and this is important i'm sure.
d) As the Bushido thread notes there is a lot of emphasis it seems with the higher grades on knife stuff. I'd be happier just learning what to do if I'm punched/kicked and trying to run where someone has a knife
e) We don't really practice striking because it is all reactive

In short I worry i'm trying to learn how to swim without getting in the water as someone remarked over at the Bushido thread
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Re: Traditional (not BJJ) Jiu Jitsu for basic self defence

Postby rattus » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:49 am

If you live in Edinburgh and want to learn how to handle yourself there is only one place to go.

http://www.rick-young.co.uk/

Rick is the real deal.

Years of working the door, and years of study of Jeet Kune Do, BJJ, Judo, Kali, Silat, Thai Boxing under top class instructors..

He is a complete "real world" fighter with a world class reputation.

Without wanting to sound like a member of "The Rick Young" fan club, he is among the best in Britain.

Go see him, look at his students, talk to him.

An hour out of your time will change you perception of what Martial Arts are for.
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Re: Traditional (not BJJ) Jiu Jitsu for basic self defence

Postby rattus » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:25 pm

Having made the case for Ricky above I think I ought to offer the advice that is really in my heart!

Take the money you were going to spend on fighting and use it to move to / socialize in a nicer area!
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Re: Traditional (not BJJ) Jiu Jitsu for basic self defence

Postby baldy » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:51 pm

I wouldn't over think it too much. If you enjoy the training you are more likely to do it long term. One year of training in any martial art is way better than 6 weeks of training in the ultimate one that you quit because you didn't enjoy it.

My background is aikido which is even more soft than Jiu Jitsu.

a) we don't spar beyond practicing particular techniques with a partner who is as compliant as you need or resists as you need. To be fair we also do a 'grinder' at least once a week where either novices or grades have the whole dojo run at them one by one and you have to throw them. Again though people are as compliant or as realistic as you feel you can cope with.

In a fight its hard to imagine you will use any of the techniques you really train. The point is you will flow to a certain extent with your attacker and avoid getting killed until you see a gap in which you can apply a technique. This is always how I understood it in Aikido, a real fight wont be as sexy as you practise on the mat, but if you see an opening like a wrist you can grab then it will be over very quickly.

b) The warm up seems excessive to me (it is at least 30 minutes maybe longer out of a 2 hour class) and irritates a little as I could do this in my own time. I'm probably not being patient enough about this though and I'm sure it's important to get warmed up properly.

yeah, HTFU any decent MA will have a longish warmup.

c) I spend an insane amount of time learning how to do forward, backwards and sideways rolls. Again I'm probably being impatient and this is important i'm sure.

This is an interesting issue actually, people from MMA don't see the point of rolling cos they are happy going to ground. In a real world situation if you go to ground and start grapping its pretty much over, thumb in eye, fish hook, broken fingers, ripped off scrotum. Always better to roll and stand up as quickly as possible.
Once you have mastered rolling you can amaze your mates when you come out the pub by doing forward rolls on the road, then wake up the next morning wondering why your tshirt is covered in dirt and you have a scab on your forearm.

d) As the Bushido thread notes there is a lot of emphasis it seems with the higher grades on knife stuff. I'd be happier just learning what to do if I'm punched/kicked and trying to run where someone has a knife

You can still run if someone pulls a knife. Training for knife attacks actually makes you more cautious cause you realise how easy it would be to get cut.
We used to train knife attacks a lot, when ever there was a stabbing in the news our instructor would do it for the next 2 weeks guaranteed. Would be silly not to train it if you want self defence.

e) We don't really practice striking because it is all reactive

This is good actually, cos you can defend yourself without necessarily attacking someone. Say your in a club and someone starts getting aggressive and pushing you. If you punch them, the situation will escalate or they could take you to court for BGH, not really ideal. If you use a wrist lock on them and take them to ground without breaking anything, situation is de-escalation and you both get to walk away without going to court (or you could break his arm).
From my experience, not trying to throw a punch makes you a lot more able to bloke punches and look for openings.

Very interesting topic and one that rattus probably has the more experience.
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Re: Traditional (not BJJ) Jiu Jitsu for basic self defence

Postby Lordmuppet » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:30 pm

thanks guys! You've given me a lot to think about!

Rattus had sold me on that Rick Young but having read Baldy's post I'm going to take some time and think about that too hmmmm

Incidentally, Rick Young was born to utter the phrase "there is no mercy in this Dojo!" ;) Dude looks indestructible!
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Re: Traditional (not BJJ) Jiu Jitsu for basic self defence

Postby rattus » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:58 pm

Lordmuppet wrote:Incidentally, Rick Young was born to utter the phrase "there is no mercy in this Dojo!" ;) Dude looks indestructible!


Sparring with Rick is like being charged by a largish elephant. And it's no good running off cos he just follows you! :D

Go see him. Talk about your JuJutsu. What's to lose?

Go talk to lots of people.

Trust no one!
:)
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Re: Traditional (not BJJ) Jiu Jitsu for basic self defence

Postby Lordmuppet » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:06 pm

rattus wrote:
Lordmuppet wrote:Incidentally, Rick Young was born to utter the phrase "there is no mercy in this Dojo!" ;) Dude looks indestructible!


Sparring with Rick is like being charged by a largish elephant. And it's no good running off cos he just follows you! :D

Go see him. Talk about your JuJutsu. What's to lose?

Go talk to lots of people.

Trust no one!
:)


Will definitely go see him either way! :) thanks again
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Re: Traditional (not BJJ) Jiu Jitsu for basic self defence

Postby muchluv » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:00 pm

baldy wrote:I wouldn't over think it too much. If you enjoy the training you are more likely to do it long term. One year of training in any martial art is way better than 6 weeks of training in the ultimate one that you quit because you didn't enjoy it.



I have to disagree with this my friend! I did traditional Karate for a while (as a young child, admittedly). Mostly just punching up and down a hall. I have done but a few hours with a very high level instructor. Again, 10 years as a doorman etc. And it is way more valuable. Although I enjoyed it.



http://www.geoffthompson.com/detailArticles.asp?id=154

This article is short, and really good. Him and Rick are friends and I would have thought have trained together, taught together, probably.
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Re: Traditional (not BJJ) Jiu Jitsu for basic self defence

Postby Lordmuppet » Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:25 am

muchluv wrote:
baldy wrote:I wouldn't over think it too much. If you enjoy the training you are more likely to do it long term. One year of training in any martial art is way better than 6 weeks of training in the ultimate one that you quit because you didn't enjoy it.



I have to disagree with this my friend! I did traditional Karate for a while (as a young child, admittedly). Mostly just punching up and down a hall. I have done but a few hours with a very high level instructor. Again, 10 years as a doorman etc. And it is way more valuable. Although I enjoyed it.

http://www.geoffthompson.com/detailArticles.asp?id=154

This article is short, and really good. Him and Rick are friends and I would have thought have trained together, taught together, probably.


Not exactly short ;) but a great article! thanks for the link!
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Re: Traditional (not BJJ) Jiu Jitsu for basic self defence

Postby rattus » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:03 am

muchluv wrote:This article is short, and really good. Him and Rick are friends and I would have thought have trained together, taught together, probably.


Yes Rick and Geoff have trained and taught together.

Fear pyramid meets trapping range type of thing.
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Re: Traditional (not BJJ) Jiu Jitsu for basic self defence

Postby muchluv » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:56 pm

Did you go, Lordmuppet?
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Re: Traditional (not BJJ) Jiu Jitsu for basic self defence

Postby Lordmuppet » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:00 pm

muchluv wrote:Did you go, Lordmuppet?


nopes really can't afford it just now sadly :( (was only paying about 5 pounds a session for traditional jitus, this is like 25)

Have decided to quit traditional jiu jitsu. I'm not enjoying it, don't feel i'm learning much useful and i spent all the time worrying that I'm going to put my back out :(
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Re: Traditional (not BJJ) Jiu Jitsu for basic self defence

Postby muchluv » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:44 pm

That sucks, Lordmuppet. From what I can see it's 30 pounds one off joining fee, then 25 pounds per month for 1 session per week. Or 50 for more than one.

Do you have something wrong a back condition or was it just what you were doing at jujitsu?
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Re: Traditional (not BJJ) Jiu Jitsu for basic self defence

Postby Lordmuppet » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:29 am

muchluv wrote:That sucks, Lordmuppet. From what I can see it's 30 pounds one off joining fee, then 25 pounds per month for 1 session per week. Or 50 for more than one.

Do you have something wrong a back condition or was it just what you were doing at jujitsu?


Oh yeah good catch. Just double checked and your right so not that expensive at all. The other issue is time/energy/capacity for learning things when doing tons of research. Doing the Texas Method lifting already leaves barely enough time/energy for writing. I'm in the final year of a Phd and a bit behind on where I should be *sigh*.

Traditional Jitsu had the advantage of being literally next door, whereas Rick Young is across the city hence extra time travelling.

It's def something I want to do though. Just need to get the Phd out of the way!

With trad Jiu Jitsu I had a minor right shoulder issue that made me think about my back but more it was just the case that your body takes quite a bit of abuse with rolling/falling ad nauseum. Now I'm 100% fine with body taking a bit of abuse if I feel I'm either getting stronger through it or learning something important. I didn't feel either of those things were happening.

I was getting better at falling and most times it was okay but every time I would go over I would be dreading it.

The only bit of sessions that I really enjoyed was when I got to play yuki and try to pit brute strength against whatever technique they were trying (the fact this worked for me quite a lot is troubling).

thanks for your interest! I read all of that article you recommended.
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Re: Traditional (not BJJ) Jiu Jitsu for basic self defence

Postby shellie » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:28 am

Oh this thread is interesting as I too have been training jujitsu for a few months now :-) I find it extremely difficult at times but also addictive and I love watching the higher grades they are very efficient and explosive.
We do a half hour warm up too and a lot of it is break falls. Therest of the class all come for different reasons so some like to have a hobby and keep fit and pick up self defence whereas there are also ones who use it on the door and all others in between.
I find I am very slow now like a jujitsu robot but its so much fun and its nice when it all starts making sense.
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