Is Iron Toxic crap ?

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Is Iron Toxic crap ?

Postby etherspin » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:05 am

anyone familiar with Ray Peats? I am not nutritionally knowledgable so would love opinions on this and of course any of his other articles (he has droves) http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/iron-dangers.shtml

Summary - he is claiming iron resolves anemia cause its so damaging the body starts making more blood cells to cope with its intrusion and that this is a similar mechanism to the previously promoted consumption of arsenic to sort anemia out..

other pieces on omega 3, seed oils and a hell of a lot more..
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Re: Is Iron Toxic crap ?

Postby Herbsman » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:21 am

Basically,
The therapeutic dose for iron deficiency anemia is 3–6 mg/kg/day. Toxic effects begin to occur at doses above 10–20 mg/kg of elemental iron. Ingestions of more than 50 mg/kg of elemental iron are associated with severe toxicity.


So, unless you're taking more than 10mg per kilogram of your bodyweight, then no.
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Re: Is Iron Toxic crap ?

Postby Herbsman » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:27 am

i.e. toxicity is dose-dependent.

Water is toxic if you drink enough of it in a short enough space of time. You drink water every day. Are you dead?

Carbon dioxide is toxic, yet it is in your body all the time, and you breathe it into your lungs in every breath you take. Are you dead?
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Re: Is Iron Toxic crap ?

Postby Herbsman » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:31 am

His article says "100 years ago, it was customary to prescribe arsenic for anemia". That was 100 years ago when medical science wasn't as well understood as it is today. So that's a very poor comparison.
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Re: Is Iron Toxic crap ?

Postby etherspin » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:32 am

Herbsman wrote:Basically,
The therapeutic dose for iron deficiency anemia is 3–6 mg/kg/day. Toxic effects begin to occur at doses above 10–20 mg/kg of elemental iron. Ingestions of more than 50 mg/kg of elemental iron are associated with severe toxicity.


So, unless you're taking more than 10mg per kilogram of your bodyweight, then no.


I think he is claiming a little more than that! - yes he is saying that there is a safe and beneficial amount of the stuff to be in the body but that its supposed connection with anemia completely false and it solves anemia by introducing a brand new problem to your body.. also wouldnt this have bad implications on.. for example, my green smoothies?
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Re: Is Iron Toxic crap ?

Postby Herbsman » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:35 am

From the same article: "Meats, grains, eggs, and vegetables naturally contain large amounts of iron."

Will you stop eating grains and vegetables because of this?

"Iron is an essential element for life on earth, participating in a plethora of cellular processes where one-electron transfer reactions are required. Its essentiality, coupled to its scarcity in aqueous oxidative environments, has compelled living organisms to develop mechanisms that ensure an adequate iron supply, at times with disregard to long-term deleterious effects derived from iron accumulation. However, iron is an intrinsic producer of reactive oxygen species, and increased levels of iron promote neurotoxicity because of hydroxyl radical formation, which results in glutathione consumption, protein aggregation, lipid peroxidation and nucleic acid modification." - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22318507

Like most things that we put into our bodies, iron can be toxic. Too much can harm our health, but too little can also harm our health.

As long as you have a healthy diet and are not taking iron supplements I don't see the need to worry.
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Re: Is Iron Toxic crap ?

Postby Herbsman » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:38 am

Even oxygen is toxic. Keep breathing it. I bet you don't die.
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Re: Is Iron Toxic crap ?

Postby etherspin » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:02 am

Herbsman wrote:From the same article: "Meats, grains, eggs, and vegetables naturally contain large amounts of iron."

Will you stop eating grains and vegetables because of this?

"Iron is an essential element for life on earth, participating in a plethora of cellular processes where one-electron transfer reactions are required. Its essentiality, coupled to its scarcity in aqueous oxidative environments, has compelled living organisms to develop mechanisms that ensure an adequate iron supply, at times with disregard to long-term deleterious effects derived from iron accumulation. However, iron is an intrinsic producer of reactive oxygen species, and increased levels of iron promote neurotoxicity because of hydroxyl radical formation, which results in glutathione consumption, protein aggregation, lipid peroxidation and nucleic acid modification." - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22318507

Like most things that we put into our bodies, iron can be toxic. Too much can harm our health, but too little can also harm our health.

As long as you have a healthy diet and are not taking iron supplements I don't see the need to worry.

thanks for the perspective - appreciated :D
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Re: Is Iron Toxic crap ?

Postby Herbsman » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:27 pm

On the other hand, you've made me worried that I might be eating too much tahini. It's a rich source of iron and I liberally spread it on everything I can, and use it in stir-fries. I eat about half a jar every day!
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Re: Is Iron Toxic crap ?

Postby Promesas » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:51 pm

Dr. Dean Ornish also agrees that too much iron can be damaging as it may oxidize cholesterol and lead to atherosclerosis:
"It's my humble assertion that the best way to lower your cholesterol is: stop eating it"
-Dr Michael Klaper
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Re: Is Iron Toxic crap ?

Postby powerlifer » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:26 am

Iron can be toxic when excessive levels accumulate known as iron toxic overload but this rarely occurs from eating iron rich foods alone, underlying conditions that mess with iron metabolism are the main causes.

The most common cause being people who supplement iron when they are getting enough via their diet.
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Re: Is Iron Toxic crap ?

Postby Fallen_Horse » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:16 pm

Iron toxicity is even less of an issue with vegans, since our iron is 'non-heme', and therefore harder for the body to absorb. That's why many vegan dietitians recommend getting more than the normal RDI for iron, since digestibility is low.
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Re: Is Iron Toxic crap ?

Postby Promesas » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:58 pm

Herbsman wrote:On the other hand, you've made me worried that I might be eating too much tahini. It's a rich source of iron and I liberally spread it on everything I can, and use it in stir-fries. I eat about half a jar every day!


Tahini is wonderful. It's also one of my favorites and it's my sole source of fat. It's one of the richest known sources of iron and calcium also.
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Re: Is Iron Toxic crap ?

Postby dublin dave » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:10 am

Promesas wrote:Tahini is wonderful. It's also one of my favorites and it's my sole source of fat.


Really? Tahini is your sole source of fat! You don't eat any nuts, seeds, avocado, make a salad dressing with olive oil or cook with oil?
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