Good Food Nation (slaughter free milk and eggs)

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Good Food Nation (slaughter free milk and eggs)

Postby muchluv » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:33 pm

Although the effeminate nature of my username may suggest otherwise, my gender actually falls into the male category.
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Re: Good Food Nation (slaughter free milk and eggs)

Postby Fallen_Horse » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:44 pm

"Sub-brand Cow Nation will sell milk from cows which will all live out their full natural lives along with all their calves both male and female. On retirement each cow will have a pension, funded from the sale of her milk.

Sub-brand Hen Nation will sell eggs from hens which will live out their whole natural lives and will be cared for when their egg-laying days are over."


Sounds like the most expensive milk and eggs ever. Good luck to them though.
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Re: Good Food Nation (slaughter free milk and eggs)

Postby beforewisdom » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:32 am

Fallen_Horse wrote:"Sub-brand Cow Nation will sell milk from cows which will all live out their full natural lives along with all their calves both male and female. On retirement each cow will have a pension, funded from the sale of her milk.

Sub-brand Hen Nation will sell eggs from hens which will live out their whole natural lives and will be cared for when their egg-laying days are over."



Donald Watson and his wife defined "vegan" as someone who believes it is wrong to "exploit" animals. Not killing them is one step up, for sure, but given a choice I'm sure dairy cows would rather spend their time on a pasture somewhere, getting impregnated according to its instincts rather than artificially inseminated to meet a production schedule rather than living in a stall.

"The plural of anecdote is not data." (Roger Brinner)
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Re: Good Food Nation (slaughter free milk and eggs)

Postby skoptic » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:15 am

Interesting, if rich people who work in Bond St and shop at Selfridges can fund this kind of farm it's better than nothing from the welfarist perspective..

beforewisdom, I'm pretty sure muchluv wasn't trying to get US to start ordering ;)
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Re: Good Food Nation (slaughter free milk and eggs)

Postby Webb » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:34 am

I don't consider this a win for veganism, but I'm always undecided on these issues. It's hard to tell when people think they are actually doing something good or just capitalizing on the growing awareness of animal welfare issues and making people feel good about themselves while not making much of a difference. I guess the public being more concerned with animal welfare is good regardless.
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Re: Good Food Nation (slaughter free milk and eggs)

Postby etherspin » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:06 am

beforewisdom wrote:
Fallen_Horse wrote:"Sub-brand Cow Nation will sell milk from cows which will all live out their full natural lives along with all their calves both male and female. On retirement each cow will have a pension, funded from the sale of her milk.

Sub-brand Hen Nation will sell eggs from hens which will live out their whole natural lives and will be cared for when their egg-laying days are over."



Donald Watson and his wife defined "vegan" as someone who believes it is wrong to "exploit" animals. Not killing them is one step up, for sure, but given a choice I'm sure dairy cows would rather spend their time on a pasture somewhere, getting impregnated according to its instincts rather than artificially inseminated to meet a production schedule rather than living in a stall.

yes and also genetically intact - take a chicken for example, we've messed up their growth rate, the shape they grow into, the frequency of their period/egg cycle AND removed their flight ability. I dread to think how we have messed up bovines . It seems to me like purposefully trying to breed kids with a combo of tourettes, downs syndrome and depression.. even if they have the best life possible how is breeding them at a disadvantage ethical?
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Re: Good Food Nation (slaughter free milk and eggs)

Postby Fallen_Horse » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:01 am

Who said anything about TRYING to breed them? Throw em in a pasture together and some babies are gonna pop out. I don't feel like it's an unfair trade to milk them or steal some eggs if you are providing them with good food, nutrition, a place to live, and protection from the elements. It's a hell of a lot nicer than a life in the wild.

Look, I'm not signing up as a customer, but I think it is a MASSIVE step in the right direction, and if everyone lived that way, I would be 99% happier with people consuming eggs and dairy.
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Re: Good Food Nation (slaughter free milk and eggs)

Postby NatB » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:28 am

The problem being we don't have the land or resouces for intensive farming let alone "ethical farming". It is just not viable on a planet of 7billion so no matter how preferable it may be I can't see it selling except for to a few rich people who want to still eat eggs and dairy but assuage their conscience!
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Re: Good Food Nation (slaughter free milk and eggs)

Postby Fallen_Horse » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:26 pm

NatB wrote:The problem being we don't have the land or resouces for intensive farming let alone "ethical farming". It is just not viable on a planet of 7billion so no matter how preferable it may be I can't see it selling except for to a few rich people who want to still eat eggs and dairy but assuage their conscience!


Actually there is quite a bit of land that can only be used for ruminant grazing, but fresh water is another story.

Basically it would be a return to the old days, where only the rich ate meat and the poor lived on beans. And I'm all up for that! :D
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Re: Good Food Nation (slaughter free milk and eggs)

Postby beforewisdom » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:36 pm

Fallen_Horse wrote:
NatB wrote:The problem being we don't have the land or resouces for intensive farming let alone "ethical farming". It is just not viable on a planet of 7billion so no matter how preferable it may be I can't see it selling except for to a few rich people who want to still eat eggs and dairy but assuage their conscience!


Actually there is quite a bit of land that can only be used for ruminant grazing, but fresh water is another story.



I was very impressed with Jonathon Foer's book "Eating Animals", in that he thoroughly researched it himself and hired a fact checking service. One chapter in his book dealt with a "politically correct cattle farm" and the issue of land that could feed cattle but not do anything else agriculturally. Foer said there is such land, but not not enough to feed more than single percentages of the population.

IMHO, the Michael Pollan style of animal products is sort of like minivans, SUVs and Hummers in the US. It is a set of backward products used as status symbols, in the case of food, it is putting it into a wrapper so the raising of noses in the air is made fashionable and cool. "Look at me, smell my anointed farts, I can afford non-polluted animal products".

"The plural of anecdote is not data." (Roger Brinner)
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Re: Good Food Nation (slaughter free milk and eggs)

Postby JP » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:43 pm

krishna dudes have tried this with cows as they are against killing, but have a fetish for milk - and keep failing and have to end up selling some of the bulls for slaughter.

The birth rate required is just too high.
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Re: Good Food Nation (slaughter free milk and eggs)

Postby muchluv » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:42 pm

JP wrote:krishna dudes have tried this with cows as they are against killing, but have a fetish for milk - and keep failing and have to end up selling some of the bulls for slaughter.

The birth rate required is just too high.


The sperm is selected so there are fewer males.

Same woman sells wool clothes from rescued sheep.

EDIT: Males not females
Last edited by muchluv on Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Although the effeminate nature of my username may suggest otherwise, my gender actually falls into the male category.
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Re: Good Food Nation (slaughter free milk and eggs)

Postby JP » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:57 am

muchluv wrote:
JP wrote:krishna dudes have tried this with cows as they are against killing, but have a fetish for milk - and keep failing and have to end up selling some of the bulls for slaughter.

The birth rate required is just too high.


The sperm is selected so there are fewer females.

Same woman sells wool clothes from rescued sheep.


the initial insemination is not the problem, its the having to empregnate the cows every 1.5-2ish years to keep the milk production going.

And with well treated cow living 20 years its not hard to imagine what will happen in the future :D
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Re: Good Food Nation (slaughter free milk and eggs)

Postby muchluv » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:31 pm

Yeh, the milk thing is still wrong, wonder how they avoid mastitis etc. Plus drinking milk is ew. Haven't looked properly into the eggs thing. If it's what I think it is, like sanctuary eggs, can't say I have much a problem with it especially as it helps keep the place going for the chickens.
Although the effeminate nature of my username may suggest otherwise, my gender actually falls into the male category.
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Re: Good Food Nation (slaughter free milk and eggs)

Postby etherspin » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:02 am

in the end we are putting voiceless individuals (no opportunity to stand up for themselves) at the mercy of humans who will invariably make shortcuts to get more and more and more particularly if they can convince themselves its for the best or in some way ethically ok.
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