Denise Minger

[JP]

i worry about the mental health of health nuts... must be stressful to be so preoccupied about minute details which in the end have no relevance.

Majority of people with evidently mediocre or even bad diets are doing just fine, nutrition has such a small impact on overall health.

i guess if you surround yourself with people and media obsessed about it, the importance comes bigger and bigger, kind of like in a cult.

[Lordmuppet]

The China Study has always come across as propaganda to me. My (also ex-vegan) brother used to date Denise and her diet is still mostly plant based (largely fruit).

I agree with her that eating vegan isn't necessarily the healthiest possible diet, but if you do avoid added sugar, trans fats and refined grains, and make sure you get a good amount of omega 3s, it's very healthy which Denise seems to admit in the paper Gelert pointed to.

Ultimately though, nutrition science is going to be pretty hazy and heavily debated long after we're all dead. But no one will be able to come up with a solid argument for why it's okay to torture and kill animals.

vegimator hits the nail on the head here. All I require is that veganism be adequate for my training needs not that it be the best possible diet (i have no idea if it is or not).

I like to pose people with a thought experiment. Imagine a new food came on the market whose production caused large amounts of suffering to children but gave those who consumed it the ability to double their vertical jump overnight. The double vertical jump still wouldn't be enough to justify it.

[beforewisdom]

vegimator hits the nail on the head here. All I require is that veganism be adequate for my training needs not that it be the best possible diet (i have no idea if it is or not).

I read The China Study (book). Dr. Campbell never made THAT claim, just that eating animal products contributed to the big top 2 killers of Americans ( cancer & cardiovascular disease ). He never mentioned the word vegan.

I like to pose people with a thought experiment. Imagine a new food came on the market whose production caused large amounts of suffering to children but gave those who consumed it the ability to double their vertical jump overnight. The double vertical jump still wouldn't be enough to justify it.

I don't have a vertical jump. Two times zero is still zero.

[Lordmuppet]

vegimator hits the nail on the head here. All I require is that veganism be adequate for my training needs not that it be the best possible diet (i have no idea if it is or not).

I read The China Study (book). Dr. Campbell never made THAT claim, just that eating animal products contributed to the big top 2 killers of Americans ( cancer & cardiovascular disease ). He never mentioned the word vegan.

I like to pose people with a thought experiment. Imagine a new food came on the market whose production caused large amounts of suffering to children but gave those who consumed it the ability to double their vertical jump overnight. The double vertical jump still wouldn't be enough to justify it.

I don't have a vertical jump. Two times zero is still zero.

I wasn't making specific claims about the China Study (having not read it that would be unwise ...) but thanks for the info I was just talking about veganism in general.

Oh and we all have a vertical jump but not all of us have tested it That should be on my to do list for next year actually as soon as i can get over the fear of falling on my head

edited to add: rereading i see how one might easily have thought i was attributing that claim (that veganism is the best diet) to the China Study on account of my quoting all of veginator's post including the bit about the China Study seeming like propaganda. Not having read it I couldn't say, I was agreeing with the part about it not needing to be the best diet.

[Hiking Fox]

A bit sad that the main outcome on here of this is people making smutty innuendo of someone's name.

Content of the internet:

50% smutty innuedos, flame wars and waffle
30% cute pix of baby animals (especially kittinz)
10% Adverts
10% useful information

[Hiking Fox]

Majority of people with evidently mediocre or even bad diets are doing just fine, nutrition has such a small impact on overall health.

The way I always think of it is that provided you get all your nutrients and enough fibre, and don't go crazy for salt and saturated fat, it doesn't matter a jot whether you eat sugar, drink booze etc.

I have yet to hear a convincing anti-sugar argument for active people.

[beforewisdom]

i worry about the mental health of health nuts... must be stressful to be so preoccupied about minute details which in the end have no relevance.

A doctor who thinks along your line coined a term "orthorexia", if you google on it you will find an article explaining it as a kind of eating disorder/obsessive compulsive thing.

Majority of people with evidently mediocre or even bad diets are doing just fine, nutrition has such a small impact on overall health.

I can't agree with that. I don't know how it is in the UK, but here in the U.S. people with mediocre diets are getting diabetes, cardiovascular disease and a number of other diet related problems in droves. One of the best selling drugs in the U.S. is anti-cholesterol medication.

[beforewisdom]

A bit sad that the main outcome on here of this is people making smutty innuendo of someone's name.

I think one person mentioned that "minger" was also a British slang term and I added a second post mentioning it must mean something stronger than the definition of "an unpleasant person" I found in an online slang dictionary. I don't think that qualifies as smutty innuendo. I wouldn't call two posts out of the thread the main outcome of the thread.

[JP]

I can't agree with that. I don't know how it is in the UK, but here in the U.S. people with mediocre diets are getting diabetes, cardiovascular disease and a number of other diet related problems in droves. One of the best selling drugs in the U.S. is anti-cholesterol medication.

sure, but i think we just have adifferent definition

as in, i said mediocre, and you listed the outcomes of a bad diet. Most people do not suffer from those.

just following basic government guidelines would do for majority of people.

dont know why some want to complicate things further.

[beforewisdom]

The government and American Heart Association recommendations in the US are inadequate. People follow them and still get heart disease whereas people who take on some of the other recommendations discussed on this board do better. So, at least in the U.S. I still disagree with your point.

[Fallen_Horse]

Glad I found this thread. Didn't know there was so much hate for The China Study. Correlational studies aside, I think it makes a good case for reducing consumption of processed and animal foods, especially processed animal foods.

Paleo has been big this past year or two, just another thing to replace Atkins. However, it does seem like most popular paleo blogs focus on grass-fed meat, no dairy, and lots of veggies. That sounds like a healthy diet to me, so even though total animal consumption hasn't changed between the two diets, at least they are moving towards more sustainable and healthier animal consumption. It's just a short jump to reducing the amount of meat they eat, a la paleoveganism...