New guy here, looking for advice!

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New guy here, looking for advice!

Postby _zet » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:54 pm

Hello all,

First post. I'm looking for advice on reaching my 'goals'. I'd just like to say after all the googling and searching this is one of the first communities I've found geared towards vegan and strength with actual results!

Okay, current stats:

age: 24
height: 5'10
weight: 78.9kg
experience under the bar: 11months

Starting lifts:

squat: 27.5kg
deadlift: 40kg
bench: 30kg
bw: 65kg

Now:

squat: 100kg
deadlift: 125kg
bench: 65kg
bw: 78.9kg

My first goal is to reach 2plate/3plate/4plate bench/squat/deadlift.

Problems: I've currently been following Starting Strength. I've stalled many times over this year and found my linear progress to be extremely slow. At first I accepted that it was because of diet restrictions, I think seeing what you guys can move has shown me that this is not the case.

So, what I'm looking for is advice on how I can reach that 2plate/3plate/4plate goal. Should I switch from Starting Strength? I mean it works..so far i've refused to changed simply because it produces results and that the problem is with me, not the routine. I like to look more towards diet/supplements.

I'd also like to point out that i'm a lacto-vegeterian, I don't consume eggs/fish/meat ..but i do consume milk and cheese etc. I've tried upping calories, ensuring that im supplementing (whey, creatine, vit-D) ...things seem to work for a while then taper off as the weight becomes heavy. I've fixed form on squat/deadlift to ensure that the movement is performed correctly (love thirdworld squatting)...so really, i just need to know what to eat. My goal is strength, aesthetics are not a concern for me.

*phew* Thanks all!
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Re: New guy here, looking for advice!

Postby thestoatyone » Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:13 pm

Starting strength is a fine program. Get yourself onto the bulkers thread, forget about seeing your abs this year and get your chunk on!

Nice goals BTW...
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Re: New guy here, looking for advice!

Postby kallefs » Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:26 pm

So...your total has gone from under 100kg to almost 300 in less then a year. Gained over a kg per month in bodyweight and you are making steady, albeit slow, progress with a program that you like and your goals seems to be set up and reachable. Are those numbers really that bad? To me they seem impressive.

Other than that...what Stoaty said.




also, go vegan :wink:
Dum di dum!
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Re: New guy here, looking for advice!

Postby _zet » Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:36 pm

Thanks for the reply guys. Abs? Nah, maybe once I reach 3/4/5 plate. I've always been weak and now I want to be strong.

Go vegan? I'd try it if it meant getting my lifts up even more.
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Re: New guy here, looking for advice!

Postby vegan hal » Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:51 pm

1st. WELCOME! this is a great place.

2nd. i agree w/ thestoatyone and kallefs that you're essentially on the right path and should be proud of your accomplishments to date. that's how many of us started.

3rd. Go Vegan? Yes. just look around this place. check out the Vegan strength table & the Oly table, etc. there are pure VEGAN beasts here. JP, ninearms, Stoatyone, Sosso, Buzz, Bronco, Baldy, Chewybaws ... just to name a few. and some super strong vegan women too. Frostfire, Linnea, Rach ... all piling on the strength as pure vegans. but if you're not doing it for ethical reasons... if you're not doing it because you know it's right, you'll never stick to it.
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Re: New guy here, looking for advice!

Postby _zet » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:59 am

Ah, thanks vegan-hal for the kind words. I'm currently looking at the 'bulkers' thread. It seems more so about how much people are gaining. What I'm looking for is a vegan bulking diet..aka: meal 1: eat this..meal 2: eat this etc....Currently I can tolerate 5,000 calories although some days i'm lazy and dip too around 3,800-4,000. But gains seem to taper off too easily, so i'm really looking into seeing what has worked for others and give that a try.
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Re: New guy here, looking for advice!

Postby Lordmuppet » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:39 am

have you read the book 'Starting Strength' or are you just doing the SS beginner program and got it from somewhere else?

If not buy the book AND 'Practical Programming' by the same author. I wish I had bought both much earlier than I did.

If you are really really broke there are plenty of pirated pdfs online easy to find. I chose to buy both though as there is a lot of hard work has gone into both books and it isn't like Strength coaches are rolling in money.

edited to add: Practical Progamming will explain what to expect of the beginner program, when to switch and what to switch to (most popular are Texas Method and 5/3/1).

Have a look back at a whole month. If you are adding MORE than 20lb/10kg to the 3x5 for a lift in that month then stay on the beginner program for that lift I would say. If less then consider intermediate programming for that lift.

I'm on a weekly intermediate program so my increases are week to week as opposed to session to session.
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Re: New guy here, looking for advice!

Postby _zet » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:36 pm

Lordmuppet, you're correct. If you stall more than 3 times then you should switch programmes. However, my stalling was a result of a) bad form and b) lack of food. I've fixed my form, but it seems i cant get a consistent diet down. Having said that, I'm thinking of moving to an intermediate routine. I really wanted to get some decent results on linear gains as progress is much slower on an intermediate routine.
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Re: New guy here, looking for advice!

Postby vegan hal » Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:51 pm

_zet: OK I understand. yeah I'm not much help on the diet side of it. I have zero interest in counting calories or planning my meals. i really just try to eat as much as i can. have 3 full meals a day and then a snack in between. toss in a protein shake post workout. i try to make sure there's a good mix of fresh vegetables, proteins, plenty of fats and whole grains.

for a while i was trying to force feed myself massive 50g+ protein shakes twice/day and i got tired of them and just felt over-stuffed. i don;t have the bulking skills of guys like Baldy, JP or Sosso.

but in 2.5 yrs of doing this i've put on a bunch of weight/muscle and my lifts are doing well for the most part. i'm a bit stalled right now, but that's due to a dodgy shoulder and just being very busy at work.

just keep at it. lots of terrific advice on this site.
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Re: New guy here, looking for advice!

Postby Goob » Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:36 pm

I had the same experience with the starting strength program this year. Progress isn't all that linear after things get heavy, which seems to be just how that type of program goes. Currently, I'm also trying to decide whether I should switch to an intermediate program or keep with a "linear progress" type program. I do think there is still quite a bit of time left where I'll progress faster on a beginner program even with the stalling, but something like 5/3/1 or the Bill Starr 5x5 program looks quite a bit more manageable to me just now. 3 heavy squat days a week is just too much.

As far as food, I think what sosso eats is ideal :mrgreen: (just look at his posts in the pictures of food thread and you will see why)
If you can't cook like him, then you will have to make do with what's going on in the bulking thread.

Anyway, you definitely aren't going to have to be weak to be vegan.

http://www.veganfitness.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=23484

^^This thread is more proof than anyone should need.
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Re: New guy here, looking for advice!

Postby sosso » Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:14 am

An easy way to bulk is to stick to your regular breakfast, lunch, dinner, but of course make them big hearty meals with lots of protein, but then add a few shakes each day. You're probably doing that anyway, since you say you get around 5000 calories a day sometimes. The shakes don't have to be just protein powder. You can blend a bunch of whole foods to make a really high calorie shake. I've even made shakes from whole cans of chickpeas mixed with other stuff like oats. Once I blended up a block of tofu.. I'm a bit weird though.

I'm lucky in that I don't have to eat crazy amounts to gain weight. I gain easily on 3500-4000 calories.

Here's another way of resetting to push past a weight that you've stalled on. This is from the Greyskull LP routine, which is a bit different to stronglifts, but this method of resetting could easily be applied to it.

Section Five: The ‘Greyskull Reset’; Enter the ‘Periodized’ Linear Progression

Ok, now we’re going to get deep into the ‘magic’ that makes this thing so damned
effective at getting people strong, and keeping progress going for long periods of time,
without interruption or stagnation.

As I discussed in the origins chapter, in my opinion, the largest single flaw (there are a
few) in the conventional linear progression-type model is how the ‘reset’ is handled, or
what to do when the lifter is failing to make the requisite repetitions per set to warrant
continuing to add weight to the bar. This program is set up to address that inevitable
situation with a proactive and productive approach that will ensure the negative aura
surrounding the reset in conventional programs is set out to sea. I really can’t fault
anyone for their negative associations, I mean who wants to take several steps back after
working so hard to get to where they are?

The trick is developing the association that the resets are an inevitable and tremendously
valuable part of the program. We are not using bar weight as the center of our universe
here, so it is just one variable.

The Greyskull Reset as applied to a bench press that has become stuck at 210 lbs would
look like this (notations are weight x reps x sets, and all weights are in pounds):

First the lifter would calculate 10% of the bar weight, or simply work from the other
direction and determine 90% of the previous working weight as the start point for the
reset:

210 lbs x .9 = 189 lbs

I always have the lifter round down to the next nearest 5 lb (or 2 kilo) increment, so in
this instance the starting weight would be 185 lbs.

The next several workouts may look like the following:

185 x 5 x 2, 185 x 11 x 1
187.5 x 5 x 2. 187.5 x 11 x 1
190 x 5 x 2, 190 x 10 x 1
192.5 x 5 x 2, 192.5 x 9 x 1
195.5 x 5 x 2, 195 x 10 x 1

Notice a few things.

-The weights were being increased by 2.5 lbs per session (this will require the use of
fractional plates).

-The repetitions remained constant at 11 for the first two workouts. This isn’t always
going to be the case, but it should be the intention of the lifter to beat or at least tie the
previous workouts rep max sets with the new, heavier weight each time they hit the gym.

-By the third workout, the repetitions on the last set started to decline. This is entirely
normal, and is expected. The repetitions will drop as the weights increase over time.

-After managing 9 reps with 192.5 lbs the lifter was able to hit 195 lbs for 10 on his last
set. This happens sometimes as well. It does not mean anything is wrong. It can usually
be chalked up to an especially good workout due to any number of variables. Accept
these when they happen, they are a good thing.

We’ll rejoin our lifter now as he approaches the weight that he was unable to complete
three sets of five with before…

205 x 5 x 2, 205 x 8 x 1
207.5 x 5 x 2, 207.5 x 7 x 1
210 x 5 x 2, 210 x 7 x 1!

Success! The lifter has now passed his sticking point and is breaking new territory again
with the bar weight. He will continue to add 2.5 lbs to the bar each workout until he
cannot successfully complete five reps on the last set. When this happens he will back the
weight up by 10% and begin the reset process again.

This ‘peaks and valleys’ approach to loading is invaluable in its ability to allow a lifter to
progress in strength and lean mass gain for quite a while without requiring any major
program component be altered.

Here we will take a look at the reset approach applied to the single working set of the deadlift:

315 x 4 (did not complete five rep minimum for last set, so time to reset).
315 lbs x .9 = 283.5 lbs

This means we will be using 280 lbs as the weight for the first workout. The following
example illustrates how the following workouts may play out (remember, here we will be
making 5 lb increases since we are deadlifting):

280 x 10
285 x 10
290 x 9
295 x 9
300 x 8
305 x 7
310 x 8
315 x 7

The above lifter is able to push past their previous sticking point, as well as set rep
records at the lighter weights on the climb back up to new territory.

Let’s assume the lifter in the case above makes it out to 335 before needing to bump it
back again. With a conventional approach, 20 lbs of new territory may seem
disheartening as an increase before a reset is needed. This type of thinking leads people to
abandon ship on a program that would continue to work just fine if the resets were
handled better.

Let’s say in the first ‘wave’ the lifter gets stuck at 315. At that point he resets to 280 and
gets 10 reps with that weight on his working set. The same lifter, being unable to
complete five reps on his work set with 335 would take 35 lbs off of the bar for his reset,
bringing the bar weight down to 300 lbs. In the first reset he was able to hit 300 for eight,
how many do you suppose he will get this time remembering before he got stuck he was
able to lift 330 for five, at least?

Let’s be modest and say he squeezes 11 reps out at 300 this time around. Enough
stimulus to build strength again, if he is capable of getting 335 for four? Absolutely.
How about muscle growth? Can you imagine 300 x 11 on the deadlift not being a good
growth stimulus for this individual?

See where we’re going with this?

The belief that bar weight is the only variable that can be adjusted is extremely limiting.
The lifter may not be able to get the new PR bar weight for five, but the strength they’ve
built on this cycle (the climb in weight and subsequent reduction in completed working
set repetitions) will enable them to smash a lighter weight (which not too long ago was
the PR working weight) for a PR in a higher rep range. This allows progress to be made
during the reset. The overload idea is continued albeit through a different mechanism.
There’s more than one way to skin a cat.

While we’re on the subject, let’s examine the conventional wisdom regarding rep ranges
in regard to the specific adaptations they are traditionally considered to deliver?
Low reps with heavy weights for strength, high reps with lighter weights for hypertrophy,
right?

We will get a bit more specific for our purposes here. Many sources agree that sets of five
are ideal as a strength and mass builder, while lower reps are more suited for maximal
strength, and higher than five rep sets are more for ‘sarcoplasmic’ hypertrophy, or the
building of muscles that are ‘all show no go’.

Too many take this idea too seriously in my opinion, possibly due to a body of scientific
and anecdotal evidence. However, Can you imagine someone training only 12 to 20 rep
sets on the squat and taking their working set of 12 from 155 to 315 lbs and not having
more maximal strength, meaning a higher one rep max?

Dorian Yates and many other very successful bodybuilders long observed that certain rep
ranges lend themselves very well to muscular development in certain exercises. For
example, sets in the six to eight rep range (working at or near failure) were money for
growth in the upper body pressing and rowing movements, while the Squat and leg
movements in general seemed to work best with higher, double digit rep range sets.
Additionally, single joint movements like curls and triceps extensions were most
productive in the 12-20 range, near failure (no one wanted to tear a triceps tendon trying
to use a huge three or five rep max poundage on a single joint movement.)

The single joint stuff I will touch on in a later chapter about add-ons, but at this point you
are probably beginning to understand why structuring the program in the manner I have
outlined; making incremental increases to allow continued progress in setting rep records
(training near or at failure), and spending time hitting records from 12 reps or so on down
to five with heavy loads is very conducive to developing a tremendous amount of
muscular growth as well as getting significantly stronger.

A win-win situation; brute strength and muscular development in one program, with a
stunning longevity rate in terms of your ability to make gains in both.
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Re: New guy here, looking for advice!

Postby knackers » Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:31 am

Once I blended up a block of tofu.. I'm a bit weird though.


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: New guy here, looking for advice!

Postby JP » Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:03 pm

guys are giving you good advice there already, just wanted to say great progress mate, if you can keep on getting half of that the next year it will be good going!

Gains will slow - thats just the nature of the game.

Some years you gain fuck all :D Thats frustrating!

But having said that, always good to keep a critical mind and learning to improve bits and bobs.
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Re: New guy here, looking for advice!

Postby _zet » Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:57 pm

thanks guys, and thanks for the greyskull info. First i'll try changing dieting habits and then if i can't milk the linear gains it's time for a routine change. Will keep you posted!
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