Denise Minger

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Denise Minger

Postby beforewisdom » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:52 pm

I haven't followed this issue 100%, so some of what I write might, be slightly off.

Denise Minger is a 20 something vocal ex-vegan who recently wrote a strong criticism of Dr. T Colin Campbell's book "The China Study" and is general overall a vociferous ex-vegan spreading a lot of information. Dr. Campbell has responded to/debunked her points, at least that is what it looks like from this article.

http://tinyurl.com/3bkmf7y

"The plural of anecdote is not data." (Roger Brinner)
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Re: Denise Minger

Postby knackers » Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:18 am

I like the comment someone wrote

Ah to be 23 and to arrogantly take just a few weeks to try and discredit years of research of a scientist over 35 years in the field - what fun!


sums it up nicely.

From that article it sounds asthough she is completely ignoring 9/10's of the book anyway.
“Animals do have a voice. If you ignore their suffering, I will remind you of it. If you don't understand them, I will translate. If you don't hear them, I will be their voice. You may silence them but you cannot silence me as long as I live.” ~ Anita Mahdessian (C
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Re: Denise Minger

Postby Hiking Fox » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:48 pm

beforewisdom wrote:Denise Minger


That lass needs to change her name.
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Re: Denise Minger

Postby JP » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:52 pm

Hiking Fox wrote:
beforewisdom wrote:Denise Minger


That lass needs to change her name.


LOL!

Though seeing what she does, it seems awfully apt! :D
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Re: Denise Minger

Postby beforewisdom » Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:17 pm

Hiking Fox wrote:
beforewisdom wrote:Denise Minger


That lass needs to change her name.


I might have been left clueless, but since we are in the internet age I was able to look "Minger" up in an online British slang directory. From the strength of the emotional reactions I take it that "minger" is not merely an unattractive, unpleasant person, but a person similar to a "fish wife".

"The plural of anecdote is not data." (Roger Brinner)
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Re: Denise Minger

Postby Gelert » Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:12 pm

A bit sad that the main outcome on here of this is people making smutty innuendo of someone's name.

to be 23 and to arrogantly take just a few weeks to try and discredit years of research of a scientist over 35 years in the field - what fun!


Einstein published his first paper at the age of 22. Who said the emperor has no clothes? Beware the argument from authority.

That said: http://www.scribd.com/doc/61821013/The- ... ise-Minger is remarkably well composed for a 23 year old with no training in biomedical sciences. There may be errors, but considering the qualification (or lack of) the author I am more impressed by the approach taken by its author than that of the China study despite his impressive track record.

Taking just the data shown on page 4 and the relevant discussion it would highlight a textbook case of the importance of dealing with biases from outliers carefully when seeking to establish correlations. When I see an undergrad attempt a correlation without accounting for an outlier as extreme as the Tuoli datum in a dataset I am disappointed. If I saw it in a peer-reviewed paper by a professional academic I would be outraged.

I've wasted enough time of my life that I'll never get back arguing with China study fanbois on here, mainly about the animal experiments Campbell did in the 1980s and which form the experimental basis of the China epidemiology study itself being distinctly dodgy (see: search function for more about giving rats casein than they -or you- could possibly stomach), so for one I can appreciate that there may be flaws in the work. Assuming Ms Minger is not a mere sockpuppet I personally feel it's refreshing to see a youngster from outside the sciences get angry about what looks like bad science, smells like bad science and tastes like bad science.

Luv & kisses,

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Re: Denise Minger

Postby JP » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:39 pm

lol awesome Gelert :)

...but dont think vf is a haven of china study fans...
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Re: Denise Minger

Postby Goob » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:07 pm

I could never trust anyone that felt the need to spend all that time and money trying to prove that vegetables are good for you then had to write a book about it afterwards. Seems like he's up to something with that.
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Re: Denise Minger

Postby beforewisdom » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:40 pm

Goob wrote:I could never trust anyone that felt the need to spend all that time and money trying to prove that vegetables are good for you then had to write a book about it afterwards. Seems like he's up to something with that.


How about people writing blogs and giving lectures to disprove the book that tells you vegetables are good?
Last edited by beforewisdom on Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Denise Minger

Postby muchluv » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:44 pm

When I grow up I want to be Gelert.
Although the effeminate nature of my username may suggest otherwise, my gender actually falls into the male category.
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Re: Denise Minger

Postby beforewisdom » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:55 pm

You want to be a polar bear?

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Re: Denise Minger

Postby muchluv » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:46 pm

A polar bear with mega science skillz
Although the effeminate nature of my username may suggest otherwise, my gender actually falls into the male category.
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Re: Denise Minger

Postby thestoatyone » Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:11 am

muchluv wrote:When I grow up I want to be Gelert.


Damn that's going in a sig...
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Re: Denise Minger

Postby Goob » Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:34 am

beforewisdom wrote:
Goob wrote:I could never trust anyone that felt the need to spend all that time and money trying to prove that vegetables are good for you then had to write a book about it afterwards. Seems like he's up to something with that.


How about people writing blogs and giving lectures to disprove the book that tells you vegetables are good?


They could have a point. Lots of strong fuckers coming from Scotland these days.
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Re: Denise Minger

Postby vegimator » Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:06 pm

The China Study has always come across as propaganda to me. My (also ex-vegan) brother used to date Denise and her diet is still mostly plant based (largely fruit).

I agree with her that eating vegan isn't necessarily the healthiest possible diet, but if you do avoid added sugar, trans fats and refined grains, and make sure you get a good amount of omega 3s, it's very healthy which Denise seems to admit in the paper Gelert pointed to.

Ultimately though, nutrition science is going to be pretty hazy and heavily debated long after we're all dead. But no one will be able to come up with a solid argument for why it's okay to torture and kill animals.
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