Armchair politics, ethical soapbox and current affairs. Place to discuss vegan ethics and general ethics and politics. Be nice.
Moderators: hardcore iv, fredrikw, JP, Rochellita, bronco
I started to get really intersted in finding out what is the best goverment and economnic system so i read some about it and i still have no idea what is best - so maybe you can help me understand
so i want to know what is the best PRACTICLE way to run the countrys - not what would be the most ethical :
to help this get started : comuunism is a great idea but it didnt work -
but that also might be because the strongest and smartest went to other non-comuunist countrys and if everyone where comuunists it would work ?
free market is great for prevnting courpttin of goverment officals and preventing bureaucracy and you get what you want - but lets say someone gets richer and strong and then he cruches all other companys - so maybe free market with restrictions ?
it dosnt have to be about goverment types it can also be about ideas - like : maybe canceling the stock market? no taxes on food ?
what you think is the soultion to the economy ?
my blog thats about simple recipes (vegan) :
- Active Member
- Posts: 906
- Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:19 pm
One look at America should tell you that "Free Market Capitalism" does NOT slow down corruption of government. In fact, unless it's strictly regulated, it actually encourages the corruption.
I don't really know what the best system would be, but it would have to have to incorporate parts of socialism and parts of free market capitalism. In my mind, certain things should be state run, such as mass transportation, utilities, and hospitals. All else could and probably should be privately run. Some regulation would have to be in place of private industry to limit environmental damage, poor workplace practices, guarantee wage levels and so on.
I would say something in the direction of what Germany currently has looks fairly good.
- Active Member
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:20 pm
- Location: Austria
I agree with DB, we can't avoid free market capitalism and state running of key services is a good idea (we can see right now that privatisation of our services isn’t working)
I'm trying to remain practical in terms of what is achievable, but I’m afraid I don’t really think there is anything to dislodge the fascination with money and power – at least not until the shit hits the fan.
I wonder if changing the rules of the World Trade Org to prioritise ‘ethics’ above profits in all trading would be a good way to start improving things for humans, animals and the environment. Similarly changing corporate rules so that profits are no longer the major driving force and ethics have to been honored. So it’s OK to make millions in profit if along the way no-one has been harmed. It’s not OK to make profits on the back of animal exploitation or ethnic cleansing or destroying habits to dig for oil etc.
As it stands WTO rules stop one country from insisting on higher animal welfare say than another – because it's anti-competition.
I can dream….
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:26 pm
- Location: UK
It's way to complicated isn't it as there's all these ideals out there so I don't ever think one is perfect over the other especially at the end of the day as humans are like we are and certain behaviours seemed to be ingrained into us such as greed/laziness etc. I have to admit I am unsure of all the differences between communism, capitalism, socialism etc and I think we can see from a lot of the countries around the world no matter what option is adopted there's issues. I do think a lot of the issues in the world come from over population (going avoid that discussion!) and coming up with some sort of solution that enables humans to live in their large numbers in a comfortable environment without too much damage to the world around them and too much damage to each other is never going to happen.
I wonder if they could build a computer simulation of some sort that could see how each ideal or combination of the ideals would effect the world over the years................again probably too complex and again you have to program a computer to cope with human reactions to the world about them...............I think my head is starting to hurt!!!!
- Active Member
- Posts: 349
- Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:07 pm
- Location: Scotland
Here's some of my thoughts:
I think the idea that there is only capitalism or socialism/communism is false. There may be other ways that we haven't thought of.
Capitalism can only work if it is expanding. This is unsustainable. Private companies are under pressure to make as much money as possible and so they are likely to 'cheat' by trying to externalise their expenses and cut corners etc. they are likely to disguise this as much as possible. This is not a very good or efficient way for a society to get the things it needs/wants. I think capitalism is very inefficient.
You could argue that the probelm is really the people abusing capitalism but I think that the system actually encorages that kind of thing.
Government/central run things can run more efficiently than private/commercially run things. I work in the NHS in the UK and things are being outsourced all the time. I have only heard bad things about the service the new companies provide. I can't think of a single case where privatising something has imroved it.
Socialism should be a good solution in theory. The problem IMO has been that those who have control abuse their power for their own interest and what you get is not really soclialism (I've heard it called state-capitalism) . I don't think socialism has ever been tried properly.
"these songs of guidance never stop the violence, we need strong defiance"
- Active Member
- Posts: 473
- Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:06 am
- Location: Leicester, UK
Johnstuff wrote:Socialism should be a good solution in theory. The problem IMO has been that those who have control abuse their power for their own interest and what you get is not really soclialism (I've heard it called state-capitalism) . I don't think socialism has ever been tried properly.
True. Technically capitalism's never been tried either, no government would ever hand all power over to the market. Even the USA has a financial system heavily skewed by government subsidy of the arms industry; effectively Keynesian spending where the product is dead people...
Vincit omnia pertinax virtusMy Log
muchluv wrote:When I grow up I want to be Gelert.
- Active Member
- Posts: 3513
- Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:39 pm
- Location: West Midlands; UK
Return to Ethics, Politics and Current Affairs
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests