skoptic wrote:Sorry to hear that you're having a bad time.. My experience is that I'm vegan for a couple of main reasons
The personal, subjective & ethical reasoning will never be undermined as long as its something I feel. The global, 'objective' & ecological reasoning can be debated and argued ad nauseum with various stats etc but it'll never be my main reason or cause me to stop.
I'd like my impact to be greater, I'd like the world to adjust many things, but won't be burning slaughterhouses or destroying factory farms anytime. Also I'm expecting a child... ho hum.
Chris Vaughn wrote:....it really seems like my personal choice to not eat animals is akin to spitting into a forest fire....
skoptic wrote:Is it possible to care about the environment and not kill yourself, just think of all those animal products & resources...
skoptic wrote:Sorry I just think its a pretty silly statement to say you cant care about the environment and have kids - it presupposes that every pregnancy is planned, that your partner shares exactly the same views, and that you're OK with getting an abortion for the environment ... in fact so many things that only scratches the surface.
Fallen_Horse wrote:Chris Vaughn wrote:....it really seems like my personal choice to not eat animals is akin to spitting into a forest fire....
You could take the same line of reasoning with any moral action. You could say the killing of hundreds of thousands in Darfur gives you permission to kill whomever you want, since your contribution to 'not killing' is, by itself, insignificant when compared to the thousands who are killed anyway. But the point (at least for me) is not how big of a number impact I am making, but how big of an impact I am making in my life and in the lives of those I care about. Just because most other people eat meat doesn't mean I will give up my moral impetus, just like I won't give up my pacifist stance just because there are many out there who choose to murder. It is VERY challenging to live in a world where so few people are motivated to take a stance with their diet, and often it is disillusioning. But you also should not ignore the number of animals that will not be killed, simply because your veganism contributed to a .0000001% decrease in their sales. Yes, your contribution is small, but for me, EVERY life is worth saving, and if I can only save a few hundred out of the millions, then so be it.
skoptic wrote:I'd like my impact to be greater, I'd like the world to adjust many things, but won't be burning slaughterhouses or destroying factory farms anytime. Also I'm expecting a child... ho hum.
Chris Vaughn wrote:At no time did I say it's okay to eat animals. Your Darfur comparison doesn't apply here.
And once again, neither you nor I are saving lives So long as governments have subsidies, meat manufacturers will produce and subsequently discard huge amounts of meat every year. Whether you eat it or not, it's there.
The problem with pacifism and philosophies like veganism is that they give a person a "feel good" way to not do anything. The problem is--that's not helping. Facts are facts. Animals die at a disgusting rate while you and I argue on the Internet. Not buying and eating them isn't helping that.
In order to make real change, we must act in radical ways. We can't cure the sicknesses that the "civilized" cancer causes; we need to cut out the disease at the root.
Chris Vaughn wrote:Do whatever it takes.
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