Halal Meat Being Forced On British Carnists?

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Re: Halal Meat Being Forced On British Carnists?

Postby Hiking Fox » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:01 am

beforewisdom wrote:Who are the "red tops" and why do they have that name ( it is a gasoline station here )?


It is slang for sensationalist tabloid newspapers like The Sun and The Daily Star. They have their title in red, hence the name.

From what Americans and people I know who've spent time there have told me, I gather you have two types of newspapers; the serious ones that are sober and carefully written and focus on telling you what is going on (albeit almost totally US based news) on the one hand, and the silly ones full of stories about celebrities, alien abductions etc. on the other.

In Britain, we have three distinct types of newspaper:

The serious ones printed in large format that are generally called Broadsheets. These have UK and international news, coverage of grown up subjects like the economy and political debate. These are either broadly left wing (The Guardian, The Observer), broadly right wing (The Times) or full-on unapologetic right wing (The Telegraph) there's also The Independent, which claims to be neutral, though many see it as more left wing than The Guardian (in a good way).

The most popular papers are the tabloids, which are printed in smaller format and have much more soft news/celebrity news/human interest stories and sports coverage. These also have cartoon strips and some have a Page 3 girl; a topless woman on page 3. These papers get nicknamed Red Tops and range from the full-on right wing (The Sun, The Daily Star) to the vaguely left wing (The Daily Mirror). Politically neutral ones don't exist. Their typical reading intelligence age is around 7. There's also a really weird tabloid paper called the Sport / Sunday Sport, which is like your American UFO abductions type papers.

Then there's a third type of paper which is sinister, because it has the hysterical politics of the tabloids, combined with the serious look of the broadsheets. The Daily Mail is the most famous example. This tries to pass itself off as a grown-up paper (you certainly won't see any topless women in it), but the writing style is aimed at people with very limited intelligence and worldview, who want to be fed rants. They will take seemingly wide-ranging and interesting topics and feed them through a kind of fear-mongering, set-people-up-against-their-neighbours filter. These papers are full of scare stories about our way of life being threatened by such things as science, homosexuality, immigrants and a vaguely-defined group of people called "do-gooders" (basically, people with socialist beliefs who try to use them by doing things like campaign against wars in Iraq, rather than just moan about everything.)

I get the impression that you don't have this third kind of paper in America, so a website like the Daily Mail will, at first glance, come across like serious news and analysis.

The BBC traditionally straddles the gap between this third type of news reporting and the serious broadsheets, though in recent years it is said to be getting more tabloid in its approach, with lots more cheap content like reality TV, stuff about dancing etc. and less science, sport etc.
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Re: Halal Meat Being Forced On British Carnists?

Postby Rochellita » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:06 am

Good summary HF! Just to add that while the Guardian and the Daily Mail are polar opposites, their comments sections are horrifyingly similar. One difference being that the Guardian readers have a better command of English grammar and spelling and don't write entire paragraphs in uppercase.
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Re: Halal Meat Being Forced On British Carnists?

Postby Hiking Fox » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:12 am

.flux wrote:Good summary HF! Just to add that while the Guardian and the Daily Mail are polar opposites, their comments sections are horrifyingly similar.


I'll take your word for it, cos I don't read comments threads on websites; even the Indymedia ones are too depressing for me!

Although the Daily Mail and Guardian are "polar opposites" in general, they do share an animosity to "do-gooder" protesters. The Guardian only grudgingly covered the anti-Iraq war march and they stated an editorial policy not to cover protests. They have always been consistently anti-animal rights, as well.
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Re: Halal Meat Being Forced On British Carnists?

Postby Rochellita » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:19 am

Hiking Fox wrote:
I'll take your word for it, cos I don't read comments threads on websites; even the Indymedia ones are too depressing for me!

Although the Daily Mail and Guardian are "polar opposites" in general, they do share an animosity to "do-gooder" protesters. The Guardian only grudgingly covered the anti-Iraq war march and they stated an editorial policy not to cover protests. They have always been consistently anti-animal rights, as well.


yeah I agree on that. This piece made me particularly sad http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/ ... eat-eating
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Re: Halal Meat Being Forced On British Carnists?

Postby thestoatyone » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:26 pm

Good shout HF! I'd have put the bbc between the times and the observer though, do you really think it's as bad as the mail?
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Re: Halal Meat Being Forced On British Carnists?

Postby Twoism » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:35 pm

.flux wrote:
Hiking Fox wrote:
I'll take your word for it, cos I don't read comments threads on websites; even the Indymedia ones are too depressing for me!

Although the Daily Mail and Guardian are "polar opposites" in general, they do share an animosity to "do-gooder" protesters. The Guardian only grudgingly covered the anti-Iraq war march and they stated an editorial policy not to cover protests. They have always been consistently anti-animal rights, as well.


yeah I agree on that. This piece made me particularly sad http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/ ... eat-eating


"No, I don't think anybody should be forced to make the connection between animal and carcass, because that might put them off and that wouldn't be in people's interest."

This is what really gets me. Unbelievable.

I was thinking recently about how children should make this connection at an early age. Not in a shock factor sense but in an educational environment. There should be a school scheme that takes children on a trip to a slaughter house at say...ages 6-7 for example. Some children will find it distressing but this is one thing we shouldn't hide from them.

On the other hand if children are desensitised to slaughter at a young age they may be less likely to become vegetation as an adult because they probably wouldn't be shocked by the likes of Earthlings.

I'm not sure to be honest. And sorry, off topic!
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Re: Halal Meat Being Forced On British Carnists?

Postby mabli » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:30 pm

quite a few kids go veggie at a young age as soon as they connect the stuff on their plate to the cuddly creatures in their story books. I was 8 and had a friend who was about 5, Ive known lots of folk like this. Seems as they get older many folk go back to eating dead animals though, no idea why
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Re: Halal Meat Being Forced On British Carnists?

Postby Fallen_Horse » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:52 pm

Lovin' it!
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Re: Halal Meat Being Forced On British Carnists?

Postby beforewisdom » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:07 pm

Hiking Fox wrote:
beforewisdom wrote:Who are the "red tops" and why do they have that name ( it is a gasoline station here )?


It is slang for sensationalist tabloid newspapers like The Sun and The Daily Star. They have their title in red, hence the name.


Ah, thank you.

From what Americans and people I know who've spent time there have told me, I gather you have two types of newspapers; the serious ones that are sober and carefully written and focus on telling you what is going on (albeit almost totally US based news) on the one hand, and the silly ones full of stories about celebrities, alien abductions etc. on the other.


We call them "supermarket rags", they are almost exclusively sold with impulse items in the check out lanes at supermarkets.



In Britain, we have three distinct types of newspaper:


The most popular papers are the tabloids, which are printed in smaller format and have much more soft news/celebrity news/human interest stories and sports coverage. These also have cartoon strips and some have a Page 3 girl; a topless woman on page 3.


I've noticed that on Google News, Google posts links from several different news sources for each articles. I still get a good laugh out of seeing "Pravda" appear occasionally.

They will take seemingly wide-ranging and interesting topics and feed them through a kind of fear-mongering, set-people-up-against-their-neighbours filter. These papers are full of scare stories about our way of life being threatened by such things as science, homosexuality, immigrants and a vaguely-defined group of people called "do-gooders" (basically, people with socialist beliefs who try to use them by doing things like campaign against wars in Iraq, rather than just moan about everything.)


What, no Jews? :)

During college I lived in a low rent general rooming house. I met several bonafide schizophrenics. When these people were not on their meds their villains almost universally were "the government", spy satellites beaming things into their heads ( hence tin foil hats ), Jews, immigrants etc.

I get the impression that you don't have this third kind of paper in America, so a website like the Daily Mail will, at first glance, come across like serious news and analysis.



I like Google News, as mentioned, because you get links for several different newspapers for each article. I've seen many of the papers you mentioned. You post is very useful, as I now have a guide to them:
Last edited by beforewisdom on Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Halal Meat Being Forced On British Carnists?

Postby ninearms » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:35 pm

beforewisdom wrote:You post is very useful, as I now have a guide to them:


Left Wing British News Sources
The Guardian
The Observer
The Times
The Telegraph


Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo! The Telegraph is right as HF mentioned, and also an appallingly written newspaper (I suspect they use the same content generating software as the mail, only with the "4 syllable words" setting turned on.) DO NOT READ IT. YOUR BRAIN WILL ATROPHY. The Times is also right. The only vaguely left newspapers are the Guardian/Observer (the Observer is just the Sunday version of the Guardian). The Independent isn't really a newspaper (just look at their website, which reads more like a magazine for women of a certain age), so it doesn't count.

http://www.euronews.net/ is good, especially the "No Comment" section.
“Begin at the beginning,” the King said gravely, “and go on till you come to the end. Then stop.”
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Re: Halal Meat Being Forced On British Carnists?

Postby beforewisdom » Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:13 pm

I wasn't finished with that post, I thought I had saved it as a draft.

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Re: Halal Meat Being Forced On British Carnists?

Postby Gelert » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:43 pm

Personally I don't subscribe too heavily to the mere political affiliation of a paper; it's something that can change on a sixpence (as Gordon Brown found out recently) and it's all relative - I find The Telegraph too lefty to stomach. Shame Der Stürmer is no longer in circulation.

Yes Minister gives valuable guidance, albeit a little dated:

Hacker: Don't tell me about the press. I know exactly who reads the papers: the Daily Mirror is read by people who think they run the country; The Guardian is read by people who think they ought to run the country; The Times is read by people who actually do run the country; the Daily Mail is read by the wives of the people who run the country; the Financial Times is read by people who own the country; The Morning Star is read by people who think the country ought to be run by another country; and The Daily Telegraph is read by people who think it is.

Sir Humphrey: Prime Minister, what about the people who read The Sun?

Bernard: Sun readers don't care who runs the country, as long as she's got big tits.
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Re: Halal Meat Being Forced On British Carnists?

Postby Twoism » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:33 am

Anybody watch dispatches? Some shocking footage. Hopefully the children in the video will now recieve a decent education.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3hFT6gJ8NE&NR=1
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Re: Halal Meat Being Forced On British Carnists?

Postby beforewisdom » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:41 am

This has been a very educational thread. I have taken a mixture of the information provided by Hiking Fox, Gelert and SpugFab to make a guide for myself to keep it all straight :):

An American's Guide To British News Sites

It even has visual aides for keeping it all straight.

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Re: Halal Meat Being Forced On British Carnists?

Postby JP » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:45 am

haha brilliant work beforewisdom! :D

(fixed a typo on your url, the link works now)
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