Halal Meat Being Forced On British Carnists?

[beforewisdom]

I'm an Atheist, but I get really annoyed by this ignorant hate against muslims/ethnic minorities.

I'm an atheist too. I get really annoyed with people unconsciously( consciously ? ) censuring opinions about Islam by labeling people with less than positive views about it as "racist". It is a form of thought control through shame.

I appreciate that many European leaders are trying to keep distinct populations of people leaving together peacefully. As mentioned earlier, I also share the fear that talking about these issues will get misconstrued as an invitation to hate mongers to crawl out from under their rocks. However, I think a lot of worth things are at risk of being lost by not discussing issues between radical Islam and the rest of the world.

[Gelert]

Condell's videos make it sound like there are serious cultural clashes going on in Europe. Being an American I don't know how true that is.

Is he from the same stable as the likes of Glenn Beck? I recently watched a clip of him trying to make the link between unrest in the UK and Greece and the unrest in Tunisia, Egypt and other ME states feeling a bit wobbly at the moment. Quite what tuition fees and the Greek economy have to do with the coming extremist, west-hating, rubberdinghyrapids, oil-stopping pan-Islamic state he was trying to conjure I'm not sure. If there is a link, Quds force have really outdone themselves this time.

I hate to conjure up some prejudicial stereotypes, but these guys do seem to prey on a collective state of geopolitical ignorance within their congregation.

[Hiking Fox]

He claims to be a liberal who is dissatisfied with the hypocrisy of liberals and their short sightedness in dealing with Islamic immigrants.

This makes me feel very uncomfortable, though I might be attributing a meaning to your words that isn't there. What on earth do you mean by "dealing with"? In what way do one sub-section of society have to "deal with" another?

Britain has always been a multicultural society; right since before the days of the Picts coming along and slapping their carved rocks all over the place. We can all get along with each other just fine and for the most part, do. It is only hysterical red-tops and people who read them who don't have any Islamic friends or neighbours who get all these ideas in their heads about fear and division. It isn't really significant for the majority of people.

My Muslim friends eat very little meat and don't swear or hang out in pubs. I have other friends who eat meat every day, swear constantly and love joining me for a pint; do I have to "deal with" the Muslims a spacial way, just cos they have a culture that is different from mine?

I don't get it; you'll have to explain.

[mabli]

He claims to be a liberal who is dissatisfied with the hypocrisy of liberals and their short sightedness in dealing with Islamic immigrants.

This makes me feel very uncomfortable, though I might be attributing a meaning to your words that isn't there. What on earth do you mean by "dealing with"? In what way do one sub-section of society have to "deal with" another?

Britain has always been a multicultural society; right since before the days of the Picts coming along and slapping their carved rocks all over the place. We can all get along with each other just fine and for the most part, do. It is only hysterical red-tops and people who read them who don't have any Islamic friends or neighbours who get all these ideas in their heads about fear and division. It isn't really significant for the majority of people.

My Muslim friends eat very little meat and don't swear or hang out in pubs. I have other friends who eat meat every day, swear constantly and love joining me for a pint; do I have to "deal with" the Muslims a spacial way, just cos they have a culture that is different from mine?

I don't get it; you'll have to explain.

agreed, this seems to have gone from halal meat to islamic fundamentalism in a giant leap. Reminds me of a sikh friend who was arrested as he jumped on a train out of breath and two women decided he was probably a muslim suicide bomber so called the police... doh!!

Im not going to defend the muslim religion or any other religion they're all a crock of shite imo with some very wonky views on women, homosexuality etc

In UK we have a twonky coalition government which is stealthily wrecking the country and poses a much more significant threat to "our way of life" than any minority group could ever do. I use the phrase in a tongue on cheek manner given that as vegans we are pushing for a significant change to the "way of life" of the majority of the population...

This guy probably starts half his videos with "Im not racist but..."

[Twoism]

I'm an Atheist, but I get really annoyed by this ignorant hate against muslims/ethnic minorities.

I'm an atheist too. I get really annoyed with people unconsciously( consciously ? ) censuring opinions about Islam by labeling people with less than positive views about it as "racist". It is a form of thought control through shame.

I appreciate that many European leaders are trying to keep distinct populations of people leaving together peacefully. As mentioned earlier, I also share the fear that talking about these issues will get misconstrued as an invitation to hate mongers to crawl out from under their rocks. However, I think a lot of worth things are at risk of being lost by not discussing issues between radical Islam and the rest of the world.

With all due respect, did you read the rest of my post?

I agree that it is a persons right to criticise any religion if they disagree with it. I also think it is important to discredit any opinion which is factually wrong. I didn’t consciously or unconsciously criticise his opinion simply because it was “less than positive”. His rant was misinformed and bigoted. He painted all Muslims with the same brush. His "facts" were wrong, plain and simple. As I said, the vast majority of Halal slaughters in the UK are the same as any regular slaughter. Yet he talks about how “barbaric” and “primitive” this method of slaughter is (in comparison to equally brutal regular slaughter) and how “all“ slaughters are now done this way which again is untrue.

“Thought control through shame"? I’d be lying if I didn’t admit that there is often an air of political correctness and reluctance to discuss racially/culturally sensitive topics. That needs to change. But in this case it’s not about thought control, it’s about countering ignorance. He should feel ashamed.

I think multiculturalism has failed in the UK to certain extent but there are many people of ethnic minorities who have fully integrated into British society while still practising their beliefs as is their right (muslim and non-muslim). I’ve never heard of any muslims campaigning for Halal only meat in the UK.

[beforewisdom]

Is he from the same stable as the likes of Glenn Beck?

That is what I am trying to get a sense of.

In the U.S., usually only 2 things will cause a foreign country to be mentioned in the news: a war or a disaster. The BBC has a stellar web site with more world news on any given day than I could digest in a week, so I often don't try.

In my own country, I have my own sense about how much things are/are not exaggerated by the mainstream news and the internet types. It is hard to get that sense of things when you don't live someplace.

In that regard, I was grateful for the other thread where it was pointed out to me that The Daily Mail was a hate filled reactionary publication.

That is how Condell, a former comedian, looks now.

He didn't appear so when I first started watching his videos. He spent most of his time criticizing religion in a jocular way, talking about beer and talking about his vegetable garden. If you gave him the benefit of the doubt you would say the increased harshness/anger of his videos is due to what he considers to be important issues not getting talked about and/or being censured as a "racist" for criticizing Islam.

[beforewisdom]

He claims to be a liberal who is dissatisfied with the hypocrisy of liberals and their short sightedness in dealing with Islamic immigrants.

This makes me feel very uncomfortable, though I might be attributing a meaning to your words that isn't there. What on earth do you mean by "dealing with"? In what way do one sub-section of society have to "deal with" another?

Condell claims that a double standard is being used in how Islamic immigrants to Europe are treated versus citizens who were born there. He recently mentioned a news story that was killed by the government of Sweden that showed that there was a high concentration of rape in Muslim immigrant communities. Condell didn't mention why he thought this was done, but he implies that the European governments are afraid of enraging Muslims.

[beforewisdom]

With all due respect, did you read the rest of my post?

Yes.

I agree that it is a persons right to criticise any religion if they disagree with it. I also think it is important to discredit any opinion which is factually wrong. I didn’t consciously or unconsciously criticise his opinion simply because it was “less than positive”. His rant was misinformed and bigoted.

That is the issue. You went beyond talking about what you think are the facts to making an attribution to him that may not be right, one that is often used as a form of social control via censure ( calling someone a bigot ).

[Gelert]

I’ve never heard of any muslims campaigning for Halal only meat in the UK.

Maybe not as a single issue, but I understand that halal refers to what is permitted (as opposed to haraam) under Sharia law; this includes halal meat, since it's not a very pick-and-choose proposition. You do get certain individuals of a Wahhabist bent and/or links to Pindi getting so wound up in their enthusiasm for imposing Sharia everywhere to the extent of causing a spot of disruption on UK public transport now and again.

[fredrikw]

He recently mentioned a news story that was killed by the government of Sweden that showed that there was a high concentration of rape in Muslim immigrant communities.

Mentioned as in read about it on racist blogs, or actual reports of it? There's nothing new about this "news story", everyone here knows that racists here in Sweden are using this kind of conspiracy theories to back up their racist claims, along with the infiltration of Jews and the homosexual lobbyists

Also, any criminologist would question using religion as the decisive factor for an analysis of any crime. It's easy to jump to conclusions when it comes to the other (that other religion, that small weird country in northern Europe etc.), but simplifcations rarely help to explain how things really are.

It sounds like you really need to broaden your news feed a bit...

[Talyn]

The BBC has a stellar web site with more world news on any given day than I could digest in a week, so I often don't try.

Wow. If you think the BBC website is good, you're going to really like this.

[beforewisdom]

The BBC has a stellar web site with more world news on any given day than I could digest in a week, so I often don't try.

Wow. If you think the BBC website is good, you're going to really like this.

I don't particularly think much of their science and health reporting, but their international news is amazing by comparison. If you don't believe me go to Google News and look for comparable international coverage in any American newspaper. It just isn't there.

[beforewisdom]

Mentioned as in read about it on racist blogs, or actual reports of it? There's nothing new about this "news story", everyone here knows that racists here in Sweden are using this kind of conspiracy theories to back up their racist claims, along with the infiltration of Jews and the homosexual lobbyists

That is the kind of clue I was looking for. We have such web sites and conspiracy theories among the TEA party here. Years ago Condell started off as pub room Dawkins/Maher, but he has become harsher over time making me wonder if Europe really is the way he has been describing it.

[thestoatyone]

I think the issue of multiculturalism is a tough one to broach in this country, everyone instantly puts up the pickets and sticks to their guns, no matter what the evidence is either way. The Red Tops (sensationalist tabloid bog-fodder) will make out that MC, or to put not too fine a point on it, the "failure" of MC, is more of an issue than it ever really could be and that makes it a lot tougher to have a serious discussion about the issues.

I've seen my father-in-laws Christian magazine inserts with campaigns to rid the UK of halal meat, and that scared the shit out of me; not because I thought it was a better or worse way for the critters to go out, but for the full on crusader-in-big-shiny-armour language. Not helpful to anyone living in the real world I feel.

As for the "issue" of MC in this country, most places (and up until recently, it's largely been the city centres - living in the sticks people are only just starting to get a bit more colourful) have been getting on fine, if you allow for a little residual xenophobia. I'd go so far as to say race is less an issues than class remains in the UK, as more people with non-European heritage start showing up across the class divides we're collectively getting better at coming to terms with diversity.

On the other hand we do have some slight problems with ghettoisation. For example one issue may be some immigrants, out of no necessary ill-intent not really empowering the women in their communities to learn English. Not that it really matters for the countries' sake, English is doing fine as a lingua-franca damn near everywhere, but it does leave such women more open to exploitation and abuse than if they spoke enough to voice concerns in the main language of the state.

People like this are not going to be helped by vilification of their folkways though, no matter how well intentioned. Even if it was all meant for the best, it sounds like dog whistle stuff for the habitually unemployed who complain about immigrants coming over and taking the jobs they had no intention of doing in the first place.

[beforewisdom]

The Red Tops (sensationalist tabloid bog-fodder) will make out that MC, or to put not too fine a point on it, the "failure" of MC, is more of an issue than it ever really could be and that makes it a lot tougher to have a serious discussion about the issues.

Who are the "red tops" and why do they have that name ( it is a gasoline station here )?