Banged Up Knee - Did I Tear Something?

[Frostfire]

So, I also posted in the photo section, I hurt my knee three days ago. The first day it hurt and only bled a little (small puncture on top of my knee cap) and everything seemed okay-ish but by day 2 it swelled up like a grapefruit and I can't bend it or straighten. I've iced for hours, elevated, taken my NSAID (like ibuprofen) and the swelling isn't going down much at all (only a tiny bit just today). Hurts like the devil.

Anyone have experience with this, did I perhaps tear something? If its just bruised I can nurse it for awhile but if I did worse I should get myself to a doctor! Thoughts?

[xrodolfox]

If you do go to a doctor, try seeing a specialist that works with athletes.

I don't know if you should go. Instead of the severity of the issue, I go to the doctor if I AM worried about it. For me the thresh-hold is my own worry. I go to the doc for small issues if they worry me, and I stay away for large issues if I am confident I know what I'm doing.

I can't tell your degree of worry online. But if you wrote about it here, my guess is that you should go and see a specialist who will treat this with the needed respect and seriousness. Do not go to your GP. Go to a specialist who understands how important sports are to you.

[JP]

better check that one out, could be a tear - but might not!

Always vary of advicing you americans to go to a doctor knowing your health care system But in a normal situation yeah you would get it scanned etc and referred to a specialist.

[Frostfire]

Phew, so the swelling is going down and with it so is the pain! I'm feeling much more confident that it is just a "hematoma" (more than a bruise, but essentially the same thing only deeper in the tissue). I still walk with a bit of a gimp but I project I'll be back to the gym by next Monday at this rate .

[JP]

hematoma is ok - except when in the brain! Fortunately yours is in the knee

[moggy]

is haematoma the same as bursitis?

[JuicyJ]

Let me preface with saying that I am not an alarmist
(nor a medical professional )
I have had ..mmm is it 5 ACL surgeries(4 left ,one right ) ;a torn MCL (left)and I have had an arthroscopic minisectomy (for torn miniscus ) on left again
And that is just knees ,and the injuries that required medical attention
Actually, I can probably respond to every post in this section from personal experience..lol

Ok ..the good news is it looks higher than most ligament injuries. I said ..most. I won't go into the technical hows and whys of muscle and ligament insertion but it looks that way.
Having said that , the first time I blew out my knee,it was very serious .I tore my ACL, MCL and meniscus when I was about 17 .
My knee was so swollen for so long that surgery was not an immediate option. My knee was the size of a grapefruit with all over swelling . Much more diffuse than your pics look
I have had subsequent ACL injuries with no swelling only horrible post injury instability which required surgery

My non medical eyes see this as a potential patella (knee cap ) bruise or patella dislocation. Give it a couple days to a couple weeks
If it is only a bruise you will be back to training in no time.A dislocation may need more time. Keep on icing!

FYI - besides my usual aches and pains I can do most things and train like a crazy women despite all my injuries.
Keep the legs strong including calf , hamstring , quads add and abductor and butt by default .

When I skied , it was, and still is a well known fact that ACL and other knee ligament injuries often occur a result of muscle imbalance.
In women particularly , quad to hamstring strength ratio favors quads BIG time which creates instability

You will be back in no time!!!!!
Good Luck and Happy New Year!

JJ:)

[Gelert]

It doesn't really look like a haematoma - compared with the photo that Slodki posted in the other thread, or the A4 sized one on my left thigh right now after a fight with verglas - but it's good news if it's going down.

Can I just pass on some advice about ice, seeing as it's been mentioned in the vein of "icing for hours" or "keep on icing"

Not a good move to do either. "RICE" is probably the most abused mnemonic out there.

Icing for hours at a time can cause tissue damage. Apply ice insulated in something such as a plastic bag in a sock so it never gets in contact with the skin, and only then until the site of inflammation is cool to the touch. This often means ten to twenty minutes tops. Then allow the site to warm up naturally - which can take an hour or more. Use it conservatively. Don't ice within 1-3h of starting exercise of the affected limb as it will make warming up harder and lo, more likely to aggravate injury.

The use of ice is only of value in the first 24-36h after injury or aggravation. Using it later actually slows the healing process. Inflammation is well-meant as it brings white blood cells, nutrients etc etc to a site of an injury or wound to help heal it faster. However it gets out of hand and reduces mobility, causes pain etc., which is why ice is applied, along with rest (not total sofa-and-daytime-TV rest though!) compression and elevation as a first aid procedure to aid vasoconstriction. But if you carry on doing that routine for too long, the inflammation is too strongly inhibited and the corresponding supply of nutrients, yadda, is reduced at a time when it is actually beneficial.

If it is a haematoma, then since it is a distinctive extravasation of blood as opposed to an ecchymosis (i.e. it's a pile up of blood in your tissue) which can drain naturally if blood flow to the area is maintained, then arguably ice is counterproductive as it will delay that drainage. I certainly haven't used ice for mine - just the occasional use of comfrey. If it is a haematoma, frosty, you've got off lucky-ish, the last one I saw on a knee was the size and dimension of a rugby ball - on an eight year old's leg, which had developed in about quarter of an hour. Poor lad kept passing out.


If you don't believe this all, I've a longer, more detailed post in the bowels of VF somewhere which you can bring up with the search function perhaps. I've also worked event medical cover at sporting tournaments and then the myth bust in question gets as automatic as the life vest routine must be for cabin crew.

[Frostfire]

If you don't believe this all, I've a longer, more detailed post in the bowels of VF somewhere which you can bring up with the search function perhaps. I've also worked event medical cover at sporting tournaments and then the myth bust in question gets as automatic as the life vest routine must be for cabin crew.

No worries Gelert, I totally believe you! Great info, I appreciate it

But the knee is much better! Swelling is gone, still slightly tender on top of my knee cap but I only notice when I bang it against something and the small puncture is still healing but otherwise all is well again in knee-land