People who fall off the wagon or knock veganism...

[Influencer]

Kali-Baby- Quit with those Imelda Marcos type excuses. Before the Vegan police turn up and get rid of them for you!

[Arbela]

you should've headbutted her.

*gently elbows Seitan out of the way*

Thirded!

[Gelert]

Not fourthed.

A crisp blow to the larynx is much more satisfying.

On topic, I find it a bit of a mixed bag - on the one hand, I'm with spug, they have turned to sin, and the wages of sin is death, if only in the metaphorical sense in this jurisdiction.

On the other, they represent someone who has given more thought to the situation and actually tried to do something about it by going vegan or vegetarian. Regardless of their quitting it, that alone is more progressive than most in the general public at the moment who probably don't give the matter second thought.

Equally, there are vegan diets which are unhealthy and unsustainable. The person may have been feeling unenergetic, lack of protein, yadda, because their diet wasn't up to scratch. Not because it was vegan, but because they hadn't set about it properly. Some friendly support and suggestions of where to get advice about how to do just that might be in order then.

The ultimate dilemma comes when a public figure, not necessarily a celebrity, but someone who uses their position to urge others to become vegan for say, environmental reasons while condemning it strongly on the basis of personal failure.

A free carbon-neutral holiday for two to Machynlleth to anyone who guesses correctly who I'm thinking of in this instance, return tickets as a bonus those who don't mention his name out of respect.

[BenH]

Re: Shoes
I can see both sides, here; I don't wear any non-vegan shoes now (excepting the glue used?), but if I had an existing pair that weren't vegan, I might still wear them (but wouldn't, of course, buy new ones). Mind you, I'd gladly wear humanskin shoes...

[Influencer]

I'd gladly wear humankind shoes as well. But if I only prefer black or brown shoes-Which I do- brown,blue and black is all I wear in the shoe department.
Does that make me racist?

[Starling in a cage]

Mind you, I'd gladly wear humanskin shoes...

Yay. I do prefer being barefoot when not at work. Grass between the toes, ... I have a hippy feeling coming on.

A crisp blow to the larynx is much more satisfying

Is this the technique taught in self-defence classes. I think I might handle this.

A free carbon-neutral holiday for two to Machynlleth

A beautiful part of the world. Are tickets to CAT thrown in, too.?? or is that pushing our luck?

[Arbela]

...(pronounced Toe-f-huw according to her)...

I think I'll pronounce it this way from now on.

[Starling in a cage]

...(pronounced Toe-f-huw according to her)...

I think I'll pronounce it this way from now on.

It was bizarre. But getting back to topic, she did say if was a few years ago when she was vegan. I think that if she became vegan today it would have been different for her.

With hindsight, I should have offered her some up-to-date recipes, or the VF forum address, or both. However, she was dismissive of me and she is a big girl.

[Arbela]

Chances are if she's interested in trying again, she'll come looking for you.

[vegan_bohemian]

i say the same to those who say 'i couldn't do it, its too hard'

if you believe in something that strongly then it isnt hard. There is just no way in hell you could ever go back to eating veg/meat when you see the suffering it causes.

they usually shut up

[skoptic]

So I know a lot of people say that vegan has to imply ethical status.. but I know a vegan who is just turning back to lacto-ovo who is a "health vegan". Maybe for some that means that he wasn't entirely vegan to start off with .. but his priorities were ego centric to start (his health) .. so I didn't make much of an issue of it, simply saying "If your priority is your health.. then I suppose you can eat whatever you want!" (that sounds moody but I didn't make it sound moody)...

Another mate went from veggie back to meat because he was MMA fighting. Yes it was difficult and it was an obvious move from caring more about animals towards the ease with which you can gain apparent nutrition - but other people's priorities can't be simply disregarded. I believe that caring about animals is my highest priority under which everything else in my life has to fall - but am I objectively right to assume all other people's priorities should follow suit?

I don't think I believe in objective morality or ethics... so I'll chat to anyone.

Yeah - on the shoe front.... I went out straight away and bought new vegan shoes & belt. Didn't want people to look at my feet and question my integrity!

[xrodolfox]

On the original topic: I would be happy to talk to former vegans... especially if I don't know them well.

Unfortunately, the folks who've "fallen" seem to be former friends on mine from HS and college well over 15 years ago. I don't see them often, and veganism, ethics, or health is rarely a topic that comes up. We spend our time just trying to catch up and rekindle old bonds. Luckily, at least 2 friends from long-ago have gone back to veganism... but i'm one of three who's stayed with it for the last decade or so.

On shoes:
I can sympathize with vegans who don't switch out shoes or wallets right away.
However, I could not do that. I decided to go vegan on a unplanned whim a summer day just before lunch. That afternoon, I got rid of my leather shoes, and found a pair of old beat up canvas sneakers and I wore those sneakers for the next 8 months until I got more variety.
I really don't get what's so hard about getting non-leather shoes right away. You just need one pair to make it for a few months.

...but everyone is different. Going vegan was really really easy for me. It isn't for many people, as is testament by 80% of my friends who dropped veganism in the last decade.

[vegan hal]

xrodolfox: yeah going vegan was pretty easy for me too. surprisingly, as i was the biggest meat eater as a kid and shunned virtually all vegetables. plus when i went vegan in '95v there wasn;t nearly as many great products available as there are now.

as for leather products... i'll admit that I did get rid of a leather jacket I had right away. gave it to someone who wanted it. But I still have 1 plain leather belt. it was the 1st gift my wife (then GF) gave me back in 1988. i only wear it on the farm.

speaking of belts, this is my new favorite vegan belt. they make great stuff!! I have a couple of their guitar straps too.

[mabli]

Just recently Ive bumped into quite a few folk who've told me they were vegan/veggie but quit for a bacon sandwich and never looked back. It always seems to happen when Im in a big group and it makes veganism sound difficult and boring when in fact they were just weak willed and pathetic. They often say they had health problems which is baloney, they are nearly always overweight imo. Actually I think they tell me so we have something in common but actually it just annoys me.

I think its very much worse to meet an ex vegan or veggie than someone who hasnt even considered animal rights yet... there's always the chance the omnivore will find enlightenment.

I became vegan in around '86/'87 and most of my friends and acquaintances were also vegan. I joined facebook recently and got in touch with a couple of folk who were astonished I was still vegan... seems I am 1 in around 100

[skoptic]

I think its very much worse to meet an ex vegan or veggie than someone who hasnt even considered animal rights yet... there's always the chance the omnivore will find enlightenment.

This is the thing I don't agree with (not having a go at you Mabli - but I get the impression a lot of people feel like this). I think it's easy to go after those who are quite close to your way of thinking, whether that's in diet, music or any subculture. I have no idea why I should respect an omni that has never considered any form of veggie or veganism more than one who has given it a go!

As for weakness..... I suppose everyone here citing weakness has succeeded in everything they have ever done in life!? Well aren't you the perfect, model humans