capoeira

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Postby pandiriver » Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:50 pm

found this for you capoeira people .... lovely headspin and stuff. and nice beat.. http://www.mazedude.com/video/BataRoda.mpg 8)
please reveganise me =(
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Postby Mary » Wed Apr 28, 2004 4:56 pm

Hmm. Looks as brilliantly entertaining as I remember, but now from a karate point of view I find myself looking at it, thinking "where's their stance? Very flash, but why is he turning his back on his opponent so often?"

Anyway, it looks like a brilliant workout, and I couldn't keep up. But does it actually work in a martial context? Or do people just do it for the fun? If it can be martial, what differences are there in the "performance"?
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Postby GenTDuke » Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:51 pm

Mary wrote:"where's their stance? Very flash, but why is he turning his back on his opponent so often?"
"?


Dynamic movment is much better than a solid stance, Traditional Karate brain washes students in to remaing solid in line work etc (except in wado, were it is loose. A more dynamic style has the benifit of confusing the oponent

If I remember correectly this is a martial arts form disguised as dance due to a goverment ban on the sport.

Can you do a spinning jump kick???, I gave up on that one about a year ago.
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Postby Mary » Wed Apr 28, 2004 6:06 pm

I can tell that dropping low and spinning around like that to sweep an opponent would be a great way of getting past and under more static defenses. Also, interestingly, there are all sorts of martial arts disguised as dance - from Bangra in India (stick dancing) to the embarrassing spectacle of morris dancing in the UK. And as for Irish dancing (thanks to Michael Flately even more embarassing than Morris these days) that was a martial art disguised as a dance confined in a tiny indoor space because even dancing was banned! Irish dancing is only useful for kicks really, as it has been so stultified by government, church etc bans on the form.

I agree that karate is too static in many cases. I would love to see a tournament of the different martial arts to get some perspective on which one works out best. Much and all though I love it, I am not sure karate would come out tops. Way ahead of Irish dancing though!

What do you all think would be the most effective martial art, and why?
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Postby GenTDuke » Wed Apr 28, 2004 7:30 pm

There is no best form of martial art as when a confrontation happens the only technique you can remember is natural, therfore if you can make your technique natural your not realy a martial artist, your a natural fighter, as all technique is natural.

The best techniques to learn are grapling, locks and ground fighting, most styles of martial art dont take into account close ranged combat, if a Karate man hits someone and then they close the gap what will happen? a graple followed by a form of take down, I tell you know no matter how good you ranged technique most every fight ends on the floor.
Last edited by GenTDuke on Wed Apr 28, 2004 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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yes

Postby i live in omaha » Wed Apr 28, 2004 7:38 pm

I always loved doing ground techniques way more than static sparring. I did brazillian jujitsu for a few years back when i was younger and it was the most fun thing i have experienced in a long time.

Most BJJ schools around here have either disapeared or have turned into full-contact mixed martial arts schools since that is what seems to prevail in UFC-style competitions these days.

So i would say a mix of grappeling and strikes is probably the best way to go, but that doesn't really mean much to me since i'll talk my way out of or run from a fight 99 times out of 100.

BJJ was the funnest for me because i think sparring and strikes and kicks are boring, but that's just me.
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Re: yes

Postby GenTDuke » Wed Apr 28, 2004 7:50 pm

i live in omaha wrote:I always loved doing ground techniques way more than static sparring. I did brazillian jujitsu for a few years back when i was younger and it was the most fun thing i have experienced in a long time.

Most BJJ schools around here have either disapeared or have turned into full-contact mixed martial arts schools since that is what seems to prevail in UFC-style competitions these days.

So i would say a mix of grappeling and strikes is probably the best way to go, but that doesn't really mean much to me since i'll talk my way out of or run from a fight 99 times out of 100.

BJJ was the funnest for me because i think sparring and strikes and kicks are boring, but that's just me.


Grappling and strikes is the way in my opinion, and yes if I could run I would, any fool can fight, I have an advantage though but is not worth the risk if it can be avoided, people that say they would fight and not run are the people who are arrogant and over confident in them selves: two huge advantages for there opponent.

I have alot of respect for UFC apart from the brutality and lack of repect plus any form of honour, this is pure natural technique.

Bu people like Gracie Jitsu rule, I study Jitsu and it rocks: there are so many ways I could break a person; it gives you a different perspective on people and how fragile they realy are.
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yes

Postby i live in omaha » Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:23 am

a friend of mine runs a mixed martial art clothing company(http://www.victoryfighter.com) and fight promoters send him to fights (including UFCs) all the time. It's cool, he has tons of ringside pics of all the fighters.

also, two UFC champs have been from omaha :) (steve jenum and jeremy horn). I met and used to train with jeremy horn's training partner, scott morton, and those guys are god damn beasts. A) They're packed full of muscle, and B) they don't even need to use it when rolling with people like me. I could tell he was using all technique when rolling with me. it was great. He could take my arm like it was going out of style.

Also i'm going to start grappeling again with a bunch of friends this summer like once or twice a week. I'm really excited about this and it's going to be fun and it's all because of this thread.
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Postby pandiriver » Fri Apr 30, 2004 11:16 am

I don't think capoeiraists practice their art for use on the street... just good fun =) but ya, dynamic movement is the best =)
please reveganise me =(
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Postby Mary » Sun May 02, 2004 6:40 am

It certainly looks good fun, that's for sure! One of the cats I live with, Geofu, sat on top of the computer, staring fascinated while that link played, trying to catch them with her paw. :lol:
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I also train Capoeira

Postby Blaz » Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:58 pm

I followed your recommendations last year (2004) and strarted to train Capoeira. I'm in 2nd level now, and I quite enjoy it :) I like the absence of extreme movements that put the burden on joints. Actually, I haven't had any problems with joints so far.

Mosty there are girls in our capoeira group. We are all students, and the course is far from being costly. I began with the other, more mixed group, but it costed more and it wasn't such a fun. Once we had to hug (each with each) and I hate hugging with people (except a few personally close to me) so that was very unpleasant experience and I couldn't sleep for some time :(

I still experience a lot of dizziness doing capoeira movements, but I think it's getting better.
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Postby tobias » Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:58 am

I would love to see a tournament of the different martial arts to get some perspective on which one works out best. Much and all though I love it, I am not sure karate would come out tops. Way ahead of Irish dancing though!


there are tournaments like pride in japan, ufc in the us and various vale tudo ones in south america. Bjj used to rule them all but nowadays almost all competitors are very well versed in grappling and grappling defense.

[edit]
this does not mean however, that any other style than those winning pride or ufc are "good" ones, all it shows is which ones work well as MMA sports in a ring, cage or whatever. on "the street" or in a real no rules fight it's a completely different thing. Anyhow i'm all for challenge fights to compare styles, we all have a lot to learn from eachother.
When people see us doing this, they think it's brutal - but they don't realize what it does to our spirit. / Helio Gracie
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Postby Skott! » Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:44 am

cap was started by slaves who were disguising their fighting as dancing, so they could be prepared to revolt.

It's a beatiful art, and i enjoy watching it, but it is not really a martial art. You may have some success against your avg person, but against someone who has trianed in martial arts, 99 times out of 100 you will be beat. Although, some of the basics can be helpful in a match (someone in UFC used some basic cap. stuff such as when he was on his back and this opponent was standing, he would do a sort of kick as he got up. It worked)

I've seen a few comps/demos, and i have never seen contact, it's more of a dance.

Also, check out genki sudo, he turns his back to his opponents quite often, and it very successful, probably one of if not the most unortodox fighter currently fighting. amazing. Uses a ton of spinning backfists, spinning kicks, jumping triangles, ect. I think sherdog.com has some videos of him
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Postby Prodigy » Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:34 am

Mary wrote:I would love to see a tournament of the different martial arts to get some perspective on which one works out best. Much and all though I love it, I am not sure karate would come out tops. Way ahead of Irish dancing though!

What do you all think would be the most effective martial art, and why?


As Tobias mentioned, Pride & UFC were started for this purpose. Early on, BJJ ruled everyone regardless of size or strength. However, fighters caught on pretty quick and realised they needed to incorporate ground skills into their game to compete effectively.

What's the best style? No particular one in reality fighting! It could be argued (with good reason!) that BJJ is the most effective in style vrs style, however reality fights are rarely one style vrs another. The best fighters are true mixed martial artists who incorporate both stand-up striking and solid ground work into their game. No one would doubt that the worlds best fighters are Fedor Emelianenko, Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, Wanderlai Silva, Mirko Filipovic, Randy Couture and BJ Penn (Andrei Arlovski could probably make a claim now too). Two things stand out - ground work (BJJ & wrestling) and striking (Thai/Kick Boxing and boxing).

Some of the Vale Tudo tournaments in Brazil & Holland could probably be classed as street fighting. Although often in a cage or ring, they are bareknuckle and anything goes. No rules whatsoever... absolutely brutal stuff - the mats are usually soaked with blood!!! In these comps, BJJ and Thai/Kick Boxing dominate.

Unfortunately Karate's record in these tournaments has proven very poor. I cannot think of any fighter that has ever even won a match... Masaaki Satake gets thrashed everytime and "Japanese legend" Minoki Ichihara was absolutely dominated by Royce Gracie in UFC 2. He walked away with what looked like a broken arm for his troubles.

As always it depends on your objectives. Happy training :)
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Postby Skott! » Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:50 pm

Prodigy wrote:
Mary wrote:I would love to see a tournament of the different martial arts to get some perspective on which one works out best. Much and all though I love it, I am not sure karate would come out tops. Way ahead of Irish dancing though!

What do you all think would be the most effective martial art, and why?


As Tobias mentioned, Pride & UFC were started for this purpose. Early on, BJJ ruled everyone regardless of size or strength. However, fighters caught on pretty quick and realised they needed to incorporate ground skills into their game to compete effectively.

What's the best style? No particular one in reality fighting! It could be argued (with good reason!) that BJJ is the most effective in style vrs style, however reality fights are rarely one style vrs another. The best fighters are true mixed martial artists who incorporate both stand-up striking and solid ground work into their game. No one would doubt that the worlds best fighters are Fedor Emelianenko, Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, Wanderlai Silva, Mirko Filipovic, Randy Couture and BJ Penn (Andrei Arlovski could probably make a claim now too). Two things stand out - ground work (BJJ & wrestling) and striking (Thai/Kick Boxing and boxing).

Some of the Vale Tudo tournaments in Brazil & Holland could probably be classed as street fighting. Although often in a cage or ring, they are bareknuckle and anything goes. No rules whatsoever... absolutely brutal stuff - the mats are usually soaked with blood!!! In these comps, BJJ and Thai/Kick Boxing dominate.

Unfortunately Karate's record in these tournaments has proven very poor. I cannot think of any fighter that has ever even won a match... Masaaki Satake gets thrashed everytime and "Japanese legend" Minoki Ichihara was absolutely dominated by Royce Gracie in UFC 2. He walked away with what looked like a broken arm for his troubles.

As always it depends on your objectives. Happy training :)


Yea, karate is definitly not a very good martial art for real world situations. I can't think of a single karate fighter who in in PFC or UFC
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