Baldy deadlift critique

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Baldy deadlift critique

Postby baldy » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:29 pm

I played around at the gym today with different setups to see if they improve my form. My back seems to round a fair amount like in this video -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmxtEWHOqnY

First I setup with my ankles against the bar, forcing me to stick my arse out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoMQFgZD3iE

Then I tried narrowing my stance with bar over the center of my foot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UObTtlLrKw

After some coaching from the powerlifters I tried to keep my shoulders behind the bar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkFYmvNQOfw

Finally I tried with the bar over my toes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRIO9E1Wqq4

Not a totally conclusive test as I was pretty knackered from deadlifting yesterday and I did not have my belt which probably also changes the setup. The last one looks the best, hips rise just about with the bar.

What do you guys think?
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Postby Andrewc » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:25 pm

Your hips are rising early so you're not able to power through with the hips from the beginning of the lift, so you're forced to pull the bar up and it's pulling your chest and shoulders down.

It's a problem I have too, I have to consciously pull the bar back against my legs regardless of how much it hurts and concentrate on what feels like an over exaggeration of keeping my chest up.
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Postby ninearms » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:12 am

Last one is the best, in part because the bar is where it should be - over the base of the toes. IMO however, the problem is probably more to do with thoracic mobility, possibly lumbar strength and probably hamstring flexibility. This is a still from the frame after the bar leaves the floor:

Image

Your back is already in flexion at this point, and you're never going to recover from that. Even before the bar leaves the floor you never have a tight arch in your lower back. I suspect your head position doesn't help either. Not only does looking up that hard increase the strain on your cervical spine but it's likely to trick you into thinking your chest is up when it's not. You're looking at a point on the wall in front of you rather than keeping your head more neutral and looking at a point on the floor about 3m away.

Compare with:

Image

Even though the angle isn't optimal you can still see my lower back is in extension and my chest is pointed forwards rather than down.

Slow-mo of the same lift

A few tests for you to try:

- What's your hamstring flexibility like? My guess is that it's poor and you end up using back flexion to get the same range of movement.
- Can you do a full depth overhead squat with an empty bar, and if so what's the narrowest grip you can use?
- If you lie on the floor with your arms above your head can you touch the floor with your hands?
“Begin at the beginning,” the King said gravely, “and go on till you come to the end. Then stop.”
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Postby baldy » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:37 am

ninearms wrote:- What's your hamstring flexibility like? My guess is that it's poor and you end up using back flexion to get the same range of movement.
- Can you do a full depth overhead squat with an empty bar, and if so what's the narrowest grip you can use?
- If you lie on the floor with your arms above your head can you touch the floor with your hands?


- Hamstrings pretty tight, always been an issue. Have not found a nice dynamic stretch yet to improve it. I can now just touch my toes when I am warmed up, but struggle to hold it statically. My lack of flexibility shows up most if I set on the floor with legs spread and then try and lean forward to touch the floor. Impossible to get myself over my hips.
- Full depth overhead squats are no problem, will do them on Friday and see how narrow I can go on the grip.
- yeah no problem

Cool picture is the line the path of the bar?
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Postby ninearms » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:49 am

Yeah, that's the bar path. Did it in Kineova - open source sports video analysis software.

http://www.kinovea.org/en/
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Postby SpugFab » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:55 am

Deadlift form looks solid man, pretty much identical to mine.
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Postby vegan hal » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:09 pm

some great info here guys. i'm trying to get my DL form right too. without video evidence, i think i'm a lot like Baldy. same height. same issue of hamstring tightness. i wonder if some of it has to do with long legs? I'm going to try some of ninearms suggestions and see how i do.
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Postby baldy » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:10 pm

time to take some videos vegan_hal?

thanks for the advice guys, will post 200kg videos soon :)
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Postby vegan hal » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:23 pm

i don;t really have a way of doing it, unless i can rig up my laptop's built in camera. maybe i could try it next time.

but boy, i am NOWHERE near DL-ing 200kg. you're a monster.
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Postby bronco » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:09 pm

ninearms wrote:Yeah, that's the bar path. Did it in Kineova - open source sports video analysis software.

http://www.kinovea.org/en/

Excellent, Ive been looking for something like that :) .
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Postby patvirt » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:35 pm

ninearms wrote:Last one is the best, in part because the bar is where it should be - over the base of the toes. IMO however, the problem is probably more to do with thoracic mobility, possibly lumbar strength and probably hamstring flexibility. This is a still from the frame after the bar leaves the floor:

Image

Your back is already in flexion at this point, and you're never going to recover from that. Even before the bar leaves the floor you never have a tight arch in your lower back. I suspect your head position doesn't help either. Not only does looking up that hard increase the strain on your cervical spine but it's likely to trick you into thinking your chest is up when it's not. You're looking at a point on the wall in front of you rather than keeping your head more neutral and looking at a point on the floor about 3m away.

Compare with:

Image

Even though the angle isn't optimal you can still see my lower back is in extension and my chest is pointed forwards rather than down.

Slow-mo of the same lift

A few tests for you to try:

- What's your hamstring flexibility like? My guess is that it's poor and you end up using back flexion to get the same range of movement.
- Can you do a full depth overhead squat with an empty bar, and if so what's the narrowest grip you can use?
- If you lie on the floor with your arms above your head can you touch the floor with your hands?


C'mon mate you're not the best deadlifter in the world.....
Melbourne Vegan Strength.
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Postby baldy » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:00 am

patvirt wrote:C'mon mate you're not the best deadlifter in the world.....

Does have a tight back and good form, which illustrates the point.
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Postby KaliBaby » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:36 am

maybe this is wrong advice but can you position yourself to start lower from the beginning? it just looks like you're higher than you should be. if you drop your body down you will engage more with your legs/ass as you push up vs. when you start higher and don't use as much lower body effort//too much back.
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