possibly overtraining?

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possibly overtraining?

Postby MikayP » Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:22 pm

i have my first ultramarathon (50 miles) on december 5th in marin, ca. ive been kind of stressing about it, farthest ive gone is 38 miles, so ive been trying to get lots of running hours/miles in. all i do is want to finish, the elevation gain for that race looks pretty crazy. 50-60 miles a week id say

so last two weeks or so ive been doing a lot of running. this weekend i did a 30 mile trail run then the next day did some sprints with a club of mine. my legs, and groin muslces, were pretty sore that night so i decided to take the next day, tuesday, totally off. today i decided to do some swimming, im a triathlete and want to keep some swim/bike fitness still, but the swim just felt super flat and decided not to go biking.

i think i am overtraining. my legs feel sore and my groin, especially the right side, feels really off. hard to explain but it can hurt during a run...stretch it out a bit then im good for like 2 miles, stretch, repeat...

never had any injuries before and i want that trend to continue...but i gotta keep running a lot before i taper off for the race.

any thoughts/recommendations?
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Postby xrodolfox » Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:29 pm

How's your sleeping?
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Postby downhillingdemon » Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:51 pm

How's your resting heart rate?
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Postby MikayP » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:32 pm

xrodolfox wrote:How's your sleeping?


pretty decent in my opinion. ive never been a solid sleeper, but besides last night i get at least 7 and usually 8+.

downhillingdemon wrote:How's your resting heart rate?


in all honesty ive never done that before nor considered it...probably a good idea
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Postby skoptic » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:23 pm

Hey Mikay,

I'd say that it sounds like your reaching an upper limit in weekly mileage (or an upper limit for the moment.) I've run quite a few 50 milers and although the temptation is there to constantly bang out loads of miles, it's far more important to get to the start all intact.

When I get to about 60 - 65 miles a week it starts to have a negative impact on my body (start getting niggles like you are talking about). Doing a 30 is fine as your longest run for a 50... and I don't think you should be doing speedwork the next day! What'll get you through the 50 is a positive attitude (and an awareness that there will always be high points and low points in those races). You say you've got to keep running a lot before you start to taper - but I don't think that's true. I've trained hard for a lot of ultras - but now I know it's more about a state of mind ... the last one I did, my longest run before was 15 miles .. and I was on about 30 a week! (it was a bad few months) .. but if you go into the race knowing you'll finish .... you'll get there....

Don't stress about it .... I hope you get better and really good luck :-)
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Postby MikayP » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:06 am

skoptic thanks for those tips...really helpful
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Postby downhillingdemon » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:21 am

It is a good idea to keep an eye on your resting HR when training at that kind of level.

Other things to consider: afternoon napping, stretching and destressing (with massage if possible) may all help to ward off overtraining long enough to get you to the race in full health.

Best of luck for the training and the race - and whatever happens, don't stress too much about the overtraining thing - cos the extra stress and adrenalin is only gonna add to the risk of it happening!
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Postby runner » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:19 am

for a marathon training I would say min weekly around 70miles

if you go to 50 mile runs and over things get complicated.

don't know if there is much scientific research on training programs for ultra running as it's such a small type of sports.

As 50 mile is close to double marathon I would say you need more miles, but don't think double (140miles) would be reasonable for most people. As the body/mind has it's limits.

Don't see any use in speedwork for ultra running. would spend the time on improving technics.

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Postby skoptic » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:35 am

runner wrote:for a marathon training I would say min weekly around 70miles

As 50 mile is close to double marathon I would say you need more miles

Don't see any use in speedwork for ultra running


Sorry to say Runner, but as an ultra runner I disagree quite strongly with your statements. I think it's very personal how someone's body reacts to the mileage, how economic you are with your training and also what your goals are. I've run more ultras than marathons, but I've done both and never hit 70 miles in a week (I run a 3hr marathon and a 5:45 40 miler .. so I'm not plodding along)

I've spoken to a lot of ultra runners who promote quality speedwork and speed endurance work as very beneficial to ultra running, improving form and strength among other things. It's not all about more and more miles .. that can be a dangerous route to go down and one that I wouldn't subscribe to others.

Just my opinion.....
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Postby james79 » Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:55 pm

Everybody is different but but to me doing sprints the day after a 30mile run sounds like a recipe for injury.

Don't a lot of ultrarunners do weights / strength work? I remember reading in 'Ultramarathon Man' by Dean Kamarzes that he did a lot of this. He looked more like a bodybuilder than a runner.
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Postby runner » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:16 pm

skoptic wrote:
runner wrote:for a marathon training I would say min weekly around 70miles

As 50 mile is close to double marathon I would say you need more miles

Don't see any use in speedwork for ultra running


Sorry to say Runner, but as an ultra runner I disagree quite strongly with your statements. I think it's very personal how someone's body reacts to the mileage, how economic you are with your training and also what your goals are. I've run more ultras than marathons, but I've done both and never hit 70 miles in a week (I run a 3hr marathon and a 5:45 40 miler .. so I'm not plodding along)

I've spoken to a lot of ultra runners who promote quality speedwork and speed endurance work as very beneficial to ultra running, improving form and strength among other things. It's not all about more and more miles .. that can be a dangerous route to go down and one that I wouldn't subscribe to others.

Just my opinion.....


I don't say you can't run a marathon with <70mile, but this is the recomendation. What I wrote before there is also a max.

Individuals are different, but to a certain limit.

we are able to do many things, but this doesn't mean we should.
one question with regards to the mileadge could be if all people are capable to run marathons and ultra marathons in a decent way. Decent as healthwise. Problem is that other than in many other sports everybody can sign up for events without any fisical/ medical/ fitness tests.

suboptimal training leads to lower preformance and higher injury risk. both under and overtraining in combination with races are not something we should promote.
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Postby skoptic » Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:30 pm

Sorry Mikay - don't mean to be hijacking your thread :-)

james79 wrote:Don't a lot of ultrarunners do weights / strength work? I remember reading in 'Ultramarathon Man' by Dean Kamarzes that he did a lot of this. He looked more like a bodybuilder than a runner.


I think Karnazes isn't that normal :-) (in many ways!!) ... while most ultra runners would be into fitness and so do some weights, most look like the most unassuming bunch in the world! I stand at some races thinking - if this lot walked past me on the high street, I wouldn't have a clue that they ran ultras. I think so much of it is mental ..

Runner - not sure I follow much of your last post (I'm not having a go!) - but you did just advise someone who thinks he's overtraining to go and run more miles.... I'm not sure that's good advice.
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Postby MikayP » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:39 pm

hey np. i think i just gotta calm down and make sure im 100% at race time. definitely is a lot of mental and with some huge mountains im gonna think ill be walking those anyway. with about 3 weeks left theres not much that i can do to improve my fitness....but i can do a lot to impede it. the only one in control of not finishing under the cutoff time is me...and i like those odds

and dean doesnt lift weights like at a gym. he does bike/windsurf a lot and does a ton of pushups/situps everyday so he does some crosstraining.
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Postby runner » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:34 pm

last weeks should be less intensive, you can't win much anymore..

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Postby MikayP » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:00 pm

ya my right groin, or something around there, is still bugging me. took three days off of running, to try to get it to heal, and ran this morning and went ok. felt it hurt a few times but i dont think it got any worse over the run. didnt push the run hard at all cause i didnt feel comfortable pushing too hard. starting to ice baths to maybe help it but just hope its gets better asap
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