thanks PRC for thr reply, very informative, very educating.
[quote="punkrockclimber"]I absolutely agree that simply avoiding the capitalist manifestations of animal exploitation is not enough. But the same argument can be applied to veganism. From a consumer standpoint [NOT OUTREACH- PURE CAPITALISM] there is NO DIFFERENCE between freeganism and veganism, except perhaps in quantity of veggies purchased. Neither buys from or supports the industry in any way. Neither is active in trying to end animal explotation. Many vegans and freegans add "Activist" to their resume, but veganism and freeganism alone are both simply tatics of avoidance.
I don't agree with this one. Veganism is about cultural and political change. Much like in oppression based on race or sex it was not only the attitudes of an individual which needed to change, but you also needed a movement of people pressing these changes politically and socially. Same works other way around, it was not only the movements, but also the individuals.
What i mean by this is that veganism has to do both: it has to be an organised political push through society, but also it has to work on the individual level in changing attitudes.
Freeganism fails in both in my opinion. It fails on the level of an individual because for him animals and their excrements are still food.
It fails on the political level because it is based on a ghettoised drop out lifestyle culture which cannot be adopted by the wider working class.
Now there's nothing wrong with that, after all as an anarchist i believe you have a freedom to do as you wish as long as you don't oppress anyone else (and i don't think eating dumpster dived animal products oppresses the animal in any other way than abstract, and i'm not too fussed about that).
But if one tries to make it as some kind of anti-capitalist, or vegan statement then i think we are on thin ice. In fact i would go as far as to say that this kind of drop out lifestyle ideologies are beneficial to the capital because they can never organise the wider population - more likely they will make anarchists, greenies, vegans and other weirdoes look so marginal and out of touch that this is the place where capital would like these ideologies to stay. In their own little perfect sin free ghetto.
To be dumpster diving, the voluntary kind of people who don't really have to do it, is often a product of capitalist ideology taken to the extreme, the whole burden of the world is put on the individual, they have to repent and wash their hands off the sins and find some extreme lifestyle which adheres to strick moral codes. Die hard catholics should be proud of this kind of mentality.
Its important to keep the focus on the problem (in vegan terms): industrialised widespread animal abuse coupled with a culture which sees animals as food, clothes and commodities. It is the abuse of the animals which should motivate us, not ethical handwashing. What i mean is that if we care about what is happening to the animals, we work among people to organise and change culture. To do this we have to resist tendencies to ghettoise and isolate ourselves as some kind of ethically pure counter culture.
By the way: PRC, good work with the food not bombs, great stuff.