Contradictions / misinformation on Vegan diet

[Johnstuff]

This topic made me realise I've never ever worked out the amount of calories I consume in a day, I have no idea. Must be about right because my weight has remained fairly constant over the last few years.

[veggie_guy80]

Will_220

This site will provide you with all the information you need on vegan sports nutrition and possibly save your life:

http://www.organicathlete.org/?page=guide


The contradictory information spouted by so many vegan 'athletes' on internet forums is what makes it extremely difficult for someone new to veganism to research the topic successfully, but thankfully there are genuine successful professionals that can provide you with the accurate information you need.

[JP]

veggie_guy80! Hows your training progressing?

note that one of the main supporting evidence on this thread was that athletes - vegan or non-vegans alike - do not take nutritional details as seriously as the original poster wants to.

[SpugFab]

[if we convince ourselves that anything less than the best is garbage, expect performance to follow suit in going downhill fast.

But, if one simply follows everything that says what we need for "optimal" performance and let it convince us that anything less is shooting ourselves in the foot, then we'd best get ready for self-fulfilled prophecy of failure that's coming soon afterward.

Well said man. I don't think I managed to communicate what I believe is the negative side of over-complicating your diet.

Progress in sport takes a long time. The plans you make have to be achievable long-term. Meal plans which will drain your effort and enthusiasm within a matter of weeks aren't going to help.

The contradictory information spouted by so many vegan 'athletes' on internet forums is what makes it extremely difficult for someone new to veganism to research the topic successfully, but thankfully there are genuine successful professionals that can provide you with the accurate information you need.

Exactly what 'advice' did you 'find' in that site that you failed to 'receive' on here? It 'seems' like a fairly 'basic' vegan primer.

[veggie_guy80]

I tend to find that internet forums are filled with contradictory posts and people can get pretty aggressive when someone asks for advice, especially a beginner looking for meal plans. I prefer to read actual books/extensive nutrition guides written by well known successful vegan athletes.

My initial interest when I joined this site about 3 years ago has changed from wanting to get 'big' to being ripped, lean and as fit as possible. I believe I have my diet cracked now and am in pretty good shape, thanks JP. I am rapidly shifting to a raw food diet, although don't really want to give up tofu.

[veggie_guy80]

[
Exactly what 'advice' did you 'find' in that site that you failed to 'receive' on here? It 'seems' like a fairly 'basic' vegan primer.

The full site has many extensive articles written by experts, both athletes and doctors.

The original poster could do well to check out raw savate fighter James Southwood too.

[Mr. Cleetus]

But, if one simply follows everything that says what we need for "optimal" performance and let it convince us that anything less is shooting ourselves in the foot, then we'd best get ready for self-fulfilled prophecy of failure that's coming soon afterward.

Well said man. I don't think I managed to communicate what I believe is the negative side of over-complicating your diet.

Progress in sport takes a long time. The plans you make have to be achievable long-term. Meal plans which will drain your effort and enthusiasm within a matter of weeks aren't going to help.

ok, ok, nobody agrees with me and I should just leave at that, so my apologies cuz I can't. I think my points were coming from a subtly different angle. Of course the second paragraph above is correct, but is unrelated to my points. I certainly do not think it is a necessity for anybody to focus on the details, especially all of the time. However, if someone is competing and looking for their best performance possible for an event, details of the diet are one of the many things to consider; that by no means implies to "simply follows everything that says what we need for "optimal" performance and let it convince us that anything less is shooting ourselves in the foot". It means being smart about what you do and making an effort to learn about what dietary factors should be considered. In the end your performance is 9X% just getting out and training, but equipment (for my sport), knowledge about things like position, and diet can and do make a contribution. negative or positive, to one's performance.

Am I still wrong?

[Alistar]

What I want to know is what wicked aminos are all those sheep and cows eating in the paddocks I see all over the place?!

I bet they are agonising on whether that plantain or clover or blade of grass is even worth eating! I mean shit if it doesn't have all 8 essential amino acids in it how are they going to encorporate a complete protein combination into their muscles?!

If I was them I'd be extremely worried!!

[JP]

My initial interest when I joined this site about 3 years ago has changed from wanting to get 'big' to being ripped, lean and as fit as possible. I believe I have my diet cracked now and am in pretty good shape, thanks JP. I am rapidly shifting to a raw food diet, although don't really want to give up tofu.

to be brutally honest, getting ripped when not big is "easy" (never piss easy, but in comparison to getting ripped when big). The challenge comes from holding on to the muscle mass while depleting calories. if you dont have much muscle to hold on to, your body is more likely not to waste them anyway.

But thats an side issue

I am glad you found meal plans and professional sounding advice. here you might have just received the "eat a bit less and do more" advice

(which is correct btw )

[Gelert]

What I want to know is what wicked aminos are all those sheep and cows eating in the paddocks I see all over the place?!

I bet they are agonising on whether that plantain or clover or blade of grass is even worth eating! I mean shit if it doesn't have all 8 essential amino acids in it how are they going to encorporate a complete protein combination into their muscles?!

If I was them I'd be extremely worried!!

It's cos they is ruminants, innit. They let their gut microbes synthesize the proteins from the grass, and then they digest the microbes to provide complete protein.

They do similar stuff for many vitamins (including B12) and many fatty acids. This is why plants are good for you in terms of unsaturated fats, but the flesh of animals fed on the same plants aren't; the microbes particularly like the unsaturated fats as it is good for doing wicked biochemistry with to feed their pet cows, leaving only the saturated fat to go into the animals' flesh.

Unfortunately, being mere monogastric animals, we can't do this shit, and thus start threads on the internet about it instead

[Alistar]

Yeah I was just taking the piss! Damn you Gelert! I was just trying to put doubt in their minds, and then you come along and dispel it

[Gelert]

Yeah I was just taking the piss! Damn you Gelert! I was just trying to put doubt in their minds, and then you come along and dispel it

I need to fix this OCD of mine!

Seriously though, ruminants are way more impressive than humans and pigs in how effective their digestive processes are. Or rather how well their guts act as fermentors running off microbes to provide much of their nutrients.

[will_220]

I've noticed that some posters on this forum seem to get very aggressive and very personal if a belief contradicts that of their own. I only come to seek knowledge, to help me pursue a diet with less animal products. I don't see any reason for a lot of the mocking/sarcasm etc I guess it happens with every forum.

I do however appreciate the genuine and helpful comments given on this thread.

Will_220

This site will provide you with all the information you need on vegan sports nutrition and possibly save your life:

http://www.organicathlete.org/?page=guide


The contradictory information spouted by so many vegan 'athletes' on internet forums is what makes it extremely difficult for someone new to veganism to research the topic successfully, but thankfully there are genuine successful professionals that can provide you with the accurate information you need.

That's exactly what I was looking for, thanks.

[No other way]

will i can understand your frustration because you feel as if your questions weren't being answered properly. the mocking and such came from the way you presented yourself. you came off as if you were more serious than anyone else here which put people in a bad place.

the truth is that there will never be optimal time and amount to consume anything because everybody is different. i know you are saying that you are very dedicated to your health and performance but let me tell you from experience if youre training boxing and kickboxing you need to focus more on technique than diet. eat a lot and eat varied like everyone else is saying. i train in mma 6 days a week and lift 4-5 days a week and work 3 jobs. i eat like shit because i don't have the time. to make up for this i focus that much more on technique. if you get too worried about your diet your training will suffer. i mean of course it's great to be in the best shape you can be in but it won't matter what ratio of amino acids you have if you are fighting someone better than you. your protein won't help you get better at fighting.

beside if you really want to have optimal performance fighting you should be training bjj.

[46secondanthem]

I agree with pretty much everyone else that has posted. I am a endurance runner and martial artist. I train everyday, and Ive seen more results since being vegan that when i was a vegetarian. I think counting and measuring amino acids like that, you end up missing other important nutrients in you diet. Just like everyone else said, eat a varied diet and you'll be fine. I bet you will even improve in your athletics.