JamesAIGI wrote:Re your reply on days of war nights of love: Interesting comment, but I am wondering if your statement :"the petty lifestyle they advocate" may be a conformist sort of reaction. When you get to a certain age it is socially normal to have a job and be responsible and not commit "crime" as dictated by the state, therefore anything else would be seen as immature, socially unacceptable or threatening. Also, even if dropping out of the system is not going to change the system or stop it from destroying the planet, is it not the next best thing? If you don't agree with the system, why be made to suffer under it? Why not drop out of the system and then try and fight the system from outside rather than from within? If there are less numbers in the system doing less damage, surely the system will be weaker...? Logically, I do not see how this can be argued against... I will read the link you sent (the reaction to days of war nights of love)
No, I don't think it is a conformist reaction. I live in South Africa; there are many many people here who are forced to squat, live on the streets and/or eat out of dumpsters as a matter of survival. The way CrimethInc glorifies poverty is disgusting and an insult to people who are forced into poverty by the system, and it clearly demonstrates that most of the so-called radicals who advocate this kind of lifestyle actually have no idea of what grinding poverty is. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if many of them return to their homes in the suburbs when the weather gets colder or the lifestyle loses its novelty.
Yes, it is seen as socially normal to have a job, but it is also socially necessary (or at least work is, but could no doubt be better organised). Everything we use for our day to day survival needs to be produced somewhere, by someone (including our vegan, no-sweat, fair trade, ethical goods). If you think its revolutionary to drop out of the production-consumption cycle then fine, but bear in mind that you will be living like a parasite on the labour of those who do not have this luxury: they and/ or their families would quite simply starve - while pseudo-radicals run around glorifying poverty and homelessness. Have you ever stopped to consider why CrimethInc is much more prevalent/ popular in the so-called First World?
The tactics and lifestyle CrimethInc advocates (in Days of War) is dependent on the capitalist system, and the people who practice such a lifestyle because of their abhorrence to work or being 'normal' have a vested interest in capitalism's perpetuation - lest they be forced to work for their keep like everyone else.
Dropping out of the system won't change it. Do you think that - with the millions of poor people who have already been pushed to the margins of society by the system - a couple (hundred) more crusty punks is going to make any fucking difference?
It is my opinion, and that of most other serious anarchists (with the exception of the insurrectionists - who are no doubt serious), that capitalism can only be overthrown by a mass movement of the popular classes (something which I do not believe can be built by living and working 'outside' the system) and anyone smart enough to see that they're on a sinking ship. The lifestyle CrimethInc advocates as a means to change is incapable of achieving such a movement.
Also, I do not believe there is something as a "next best thing" to changing the system or stopping it from destroying the planet. If we do not change the system it will destroy the planet, so any attempt to live solely outside the system as it slowly collapses around us - taking the planet with it - is an utterly individualist act and thus entirely inconsistent with anarchism (in my view at least - there are lots of others).
Edit - forgot to add that I am really not interested in nor do I have the time to get drawn into a back-and-forth debate about CrimethInc. I think it represents a wholly flawed ideology and is not significant enough to warrant anarchists taking too much time out to debate. There is plenty of material on the web to debunk it.
Another edit - just want to be clear that I fully support the
right of people to drop out of the system, live in its margins or on capitalism's excess if they so desire. I just do not think it is anarchism, nor that it will change anything.
It was the first of his books that I've read so I'll give at least one of his others a go when I can to see if that was a blip - I've heard good stuff about The Selfish Gene(?) so that may be the one I try next up.
Tracking your IP to come and axe you to death !!!!
