the lesser of two evils

[halalpig]

yogurt/milk or fish/chicken/eggs
hi everyone im pretty new to vegan (tried a few months ago and went off it)
now i finally convinced my parents to let me make the switch but we agreed to keep it limited. they tell me i need one dairy a day and one poultry or egg. i know here at this forum they want to hear nothing of this but its what me and my parents agreed on. so i just wanted to know which to pick over the others. i was thinking milk might be my dairy because ive heard studies of choc milk as a good post workout drink. if anyone is willing to "go there" id greatly appreciate it and im sorry to bring this type f question to the forum.

[JP]

Hi mate.

I would actually recommend a totally different approach. Maybe just including totally vegan meals every now and again. Or replacing dairy products with soya milk etc. This way you would "learn" to build vegan meals and habits from now on already while you are still living under your parents rules.

Just a thought, but personally i wouldnt start thinking in terms of lesser evils

and yes, chocolate soya milk is fantastic post workout stuff

[halalpig]

Hi mate.

I would actually recommend a totally different approach. Maybe just including totally vegan meals every now and again. Or replacing dairy products with soya milk etc. This way you would "learn" to build vegan meals and habits from now on already while you are still living under your parents rules.

Just a thought, but personally i wouldnt start thinking in terms of lesser evils

and yes, chocolate soya milk is fantastic post workout stuff

well isnt soy counterproductive to muscle gain. thats why most of my protein comes from veggies, grains, beans, nuts and seeds, and the serving of dairy and protein. now im not aiming to be a big bodybuilder but my sport (mma) does require a good amount of muscle. danzing is an awsome fighter but his lack of strength was apparent in his last two.

[JP]

nah man, soya is solid for muscle and strength building. Nothing wrong with it - the internet warriors who talk about the phyto-oestrogens in soya just talk like that because they repeat some misleading articles which seem not to go away. At the same time they do not mention the much stronger mammal oestrogens in dairy, so the whole argument is a bit silly.

Danzigs lack of strength was because he lacks strength there is no dietary trickery to solve that, its all down to training - dietary things can only provide the adequate basics.

[halalpig]

nah man, soya is solid for muscle and strength building. Nothing wrong with it - the internet warriors who talk about the phyto-oestrogens in soya just talk like that because they repeat some misleading articles which seem not to go away. At the same time they do not mention the much stronger mammal oestrogens in dairy, so the whole argument is a bit silly.

Danzigs lack of strength was because he lacks strength there is no dietary trickery to solve that, its all down to training - dietary things can only provide the adequate basics.

wat about aggression though. my dad, who is the one that says i should have some meat/egg says that meat gives vitamins and hormones to make u aggressive. thats why theyve been against me cutting back meat because they feel i will lack energy and that power/explosion type of strength. i look at fighter who say they drink soymilk such as danzing florian and sobral and none of them are really aggressive. now i know u are really giving good support and i dont mean to fight your suggestions but i still think im going to go without soy unless there is a way to stay aggressive with soy proteins and no meat. thank you though and i am willing to switch i just want to know better first what id be getting into/if i will lose strength or aggression.

[Andrewc]

I've never heard if this vitamin agression but I know through veganism I'm getting plenty of vitamin compassion. But in all seriousness I've never heard of such an argument, but I've been told many times that I'm an "angry" person if that means anything to you.

As JP suggested opt for more 100% vegan meals to help you learn to build a solid eating plan as opposed to meeting your parents half way on your ethics.

Ps; Out of curiosity how old are you?

[JP]

nah man, no link between those things.

basically, if you are an aggressive bastard and you eat meat, you are a meat eating aggressive bastard.

if you are an aggressive bastard and go vegan, you are an aggressive vegan

i know plenty of aggressive vegans! On this forum as well, there is bunch of vegan powerlifters, strongmen/women, martial artists of all sorts.

if i would try to somehow give some kind of roundabout explanation it could be other way around: people who are kinder and more compassionate by nature might have more of a tendency to go vegan. But one doesnt exclude the other.

Go and prove your dad wrong and keep on becoming a better fighter as you turn your diet more and more toward vegan.

[halalpig]

I've never heard if this vitamin agression but I know through veganism I'm getting plenty of vitamin compassion. But in all seriousness I've never heard of such an argument, but I've been told many times that I'm an "angry" person if that means anything to you.

As JP suggested opt for more 100% vegan meals to help you learn to build a solid eating plan as opposed to meeting your parents half way on your ethics.

Ps; Out of curiosity how old are you?

im 16 and i dont mean anger. i mean kinda like explosive drive. when i cut weight for wrestling i was under eating and consumed little meat (a low fat and protein diet). my parents immediately got me off it because they saw i was a stick. the year before i was tossing people across the mat and even getting dq'd twice for slamming because i was using so much force in my takedowns. one of the big reasons my dad suggests i have meat is because he would tell me about wars of early civilization that meat eaters dominated the poorer countries who didnt all have cooked meat. that and he uses as evidence for todays athletes danzing getting thrown down against guida (whos very aggressive) or sherks domination of kenny florian. he always says about those guys the eat there meat and they are pitbulls. kenny and danzing are two of my favorites but so is gsp and alves and couture and they all are powerfull carnivores. thats why im really after something like coutures diet using tons of veggies and small amounts of meat.

[Andrewc]

I'm under the impression that you've resigned yourself to the belief that you won't reach your full potential without some animal products, but you've also come to a vegan fitness forum for vegan nutritional advice to compliment your training which is awesome. There's no shortage of guys and girls on here training for MMA, boxing and other martial arts who can give you advice on what they eat and how they train for optimal results.

I live with user Patvirt and one thing that I often hear him say to people is that just because you're not vegan it doesn't mean that you can't reap the benefits of eating healthy vegan food and using vegan products - This includes soy, pea, hemp and rice protein isolates.

I can understand the trouble you're experiencing with your parents, particularly your dad regarding your desire to switch to veganism, myself and probably 99% of the users of this forum have been in the same position, and I for one still have this trouble. No matter how strong, fast, succesful or ripped you become on a vegan diet, you will constantly be told you could achieve more if you ate meat. The best answer you can give them is to suck it up, go vegan and prove everyone wrong.

[halalpig]

I'm under the impression that you've resigned yourself to the belief that you won't reach your full potential without some animal products, but you've also come to a vegan fitness forum for vegan nutritional advice to compliment your training which is awesome. There's no shortage of guys and girls on here training for MMA, boxing and other martial arts who can give you advice on what they eat and how they train for optimal results.

I live with user Patvirt and one thing that I often hear him say to people is that just because you're not vegan it doesn't mean that you can't reap the benefits of eating healthy vegan food and using vegan products - This includes soy, pea, hemp and rice protein isolates.

I can understand the trouble you're experiencing with your parents, particularly your dad regarding your desire to switch to veganism, myself and probably 99% of the users of this forum have been in the same position, and I for one still have this trouble. No matter how strong, fast, succesful or ripped you become on a vegan diet, you will constantly be told you could achieve more if you ate meat. The best answer you can give them is to suck it up, go vegan and prove everyone wrong.

wow that was inspiring. im not entirely convinced that i need animal products im just a little skeptical from all ive heard. i actually think less of all of it is probably how id be best off. we only need about .8g protein per kg of body weight. so i think less protein from both sources animal and vegan is best. my concerns are b vit and calcium. when my parents asked how will u make up for it without supp. i had to agree to have limited. now from the replies here ill admit soy isnt evil but still im a little skeptical but its been a few hours and you know what-maybe i can get cal from soy milk. ill try that for a little while then thake it from there. thank you everone for your replies and support.

[spike]

Halalpig, welcome to the forum. What was it that made you decide you want to go vegan?

Re the vitamins, B12 is proably the only one you need to supplement on a varied vegan diet. You don't even need to take it each day, once a week will do, it's no hassle.

BTW, did you post here when you tried out eating vegan a few months back?

[halalpig]

Halalpig, welcome to the forum. What was it that made you decide you want to go vegan?

Re the vitamins, B12 is proably the only one you need to supplement on a varied vegan diet. You don't even need to take it each day, once a week will do, it's no hassle.

BTW, did you post here when you tried out eating vegan a few months back?

yes i did and the same reasons as before basicaly. i want to be healthy, and i wanted to follow a deit that is favorable to acid/alkaline and theres little information of how to actually eat on that type of diet. im basically doing it for general health on top of sports preformance. now ive got a multivit. with a ton of b vit but im not a huge fan of taking pills. im going to go to the store sometime tommarow and im going to pick up soy milk. im going to just start with that but ive been looking and i cant really find any diet logs so i dont know if ill be drinking it right away. timing is important. ill let u know how my transition is going.

[ninearms]

im 16 and i dont mean anger. i mean kinda like explosive drive.

You mean like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo_H2HD9glA&fmt=18

If so, then yes it's perfectly possible to do on a vegan diet, including eating soy products. Explosive power is gained by training for it - Olympic lifts, jumps, throws, sprints. As long as you have that sort of training in your program you'll do fine.

[patvirt]

This whole thread has angered me. Why did you join a vegan forum if you don't beleive in any of it? The people who have replied to you have given you adequate advice and it seems you aren't taking it on board. Please leave the forum.

[^toby^]

Halal pig,

this article might help you re: how to get big and strong with vegan diet.

Please respect the helpful people. People respect you when you respect them, you know.