Cars and leather

[Jonathan]

There is options if you want to...

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/200 ... usat_x.htm

That is excellent! However, I wouldn't be in the market for a new car

Bob and JP - the problem with the minibus route is that it is already done. There are loads of tours going from Edinburgh up to the Highlands in minibuses etc. As far as I can tell, there is nothing in the more upmarket end based in Edinburgh, only a couple of companies based in Inverness.

JP, with regard to my interest in cars, the A4 is a sort of compromise. If the car weren't for both Kathryn and myself, I would get something far more ridiculous. The A4 is a very rational choice. After posting the thread yesterday I had a look on autotrader to see what I could get without leather and it pretty much is just Vauxhalls, Skodas and Fords. I'm just not convinced with the build quality on them at all and I know that I would get no enjoyment out of driving them. At the end of the day, driving is one of my main passions in life, which probably makes me odd from a vegan point of view.

Jonathan

[JP]

hehe its ok, we all have our passions, and they more or less look weird from people outside it So dont worry about that!

During the time your passion was strength sports our passions just happened to coincide, which made them look rational for both of us

tuc is a car freak as well! in fact, i should post him a link to this thread...

Anyway, i hope you get passionate about some sport, or something more ecological soon

[Jonathan]

Arguably though, bulking is not very ecological, what with the huge increase in calorie consumption and the farting.......don't get me started on the methane!

[Hiking Fox]

I wouldn't do it, but you aren't personally contributing to any cruelty by buying second hand.

I'd say that this thread highlights a 'niche' in campaigning; if it is true that so many cars contain leather, the manufacturers need to have pressure put on them to do otherwise. This sounds like summat the Vegetarian Society should take on.

I suggest that everyone who has posted in this thread fires off a quick email to the Veg Soc and asks them to take it up as a campaign, and that Jonathan contacts the manufacturer of his particular car and asks them to consider making leather-free ones.

Then, a negative dilemma has been turned into a positive and useful outcome.

Just my thoughts.

[Big Good Wolf]

Wasn't there a story in the news a while ago about Pamela Anderson trying to buy a Mercedes without leather ?
I think, in the end, Mercedes changed their policy and now offer all their cars without leather.

At the end of the day, driving is one of my main passions in life, which probably makes me odd from a vegan point of view.

Not as odd as a vegan going to military vehicle shows in a truck that does 5mpg

[bob_summers]

you could drive down to a local halfords or similar, and have them change the steering wheel and gearknob for something non leather. that would leave the gaitor, i'd be surprised if that wasn't pvc, but you could easily make a replacement.

seats are tougher..offer them as a swap with someone who has a lower spec a4? get them to do the spannering since they are 'profiting' from the swap...

just some ideas anyway.

[bob_summers]

Not as odd as a vegan going to military vehicle shows in a truck that does 5mpg

yeah, my bus gets 18 or 20 on a good day

[emm7]

now I am not the world's best driver but I do very much enjoy driving late at night after dark with damn fine blues or jazz music playing, I get a lot of pleasure out of that. I do like driving in the daytime as well but driving at night feels more creative. I think a lot of ideas through when driving. And music seems to be much more enveloping in a car than when you play it in a room in a house? The music is crucial. I wouldn't enjoy the driving without the music.
Sometimes I feel like driving without having any destination in particular just so I can keep driving and listening to music. I don't though because I feel bad about wasting the petrol! Sometimes though I deliberately drive the longer way home so that I can prolong the "driving & music" experience!

[bob_summers]

hmm.. not sure about the music thing. i feel much more 'enveloped' when i'm sat in the firing line of a pair of sweet old hifi speakers with a slab of delicious vinyl on the platter. having to concentrate on the road would just ruin it (and the record would skip heheh)

[emm7]

ah now I don't have a hi-fi just this type of machine




what kind of hi fi and speakers are best for playing Billie Holliday?

[tuc]

tuc is a car freak as well! in fact, i should post him a link to this thread...

I was really happy to see Mercedes-Benz offering an option for leather in its luxury models. Actually they did it earlier as well, but mainly for durability reasons. The have had MB-tex textile back in the days which is a bit like vinyl, but looks like leather and can handle anything. I saw a 20 year old M-B with 800tkm on dashboard and the seats still looked like new.

I myself drive a 100 % vegan car atm (well, I'm not sure about the glue it has in some parts). My smart fortwo CDI doesn't have leather anywhere.

My previous car one wasn't far from vegan either, it had a leather wheel and gear shift knob but nothing else. It was a smart Roadster-Coupe:



Just like the one on the pic. I seriously recommend that car for anyone who wants a fun ecological car. Fuel consumption is about the same as a Prius and the turbo whistles really nicely. It handles perfectly (better in slalom test than Lamborghini Gallardo!!!) and is ecologically built and almost free to insure!

Plus it is very cheap to buy and maintain, but still feels like a real sports car with or without the roof. Especially without roof at summer it's super fun! And since it's small and cute, average people don't hate it even though it's a sports car!

[bob_summers]

what kind of hi fi and speakers are best for playing Billie Holliday?

hehe the older the better

[emm7]

what kind of hi fi and speakers are best for playing Billie Holliday?

hehe the older the better

oooh I'll drink to that

[Ava Odoéména]

The question would have been different if the car was new. Buying a used car with leather fittings is not an ethical dilemma (as far as cars can not be an ethical dilemma), because as Fox said you did not partake in the violation of animals, the first person who bought that car did.

It is however a political dilemma when nonvegans use the presence of (real or alleged) leather as leverage against vegan ethics. For some reason, discovering a "flaw" (real or imagined as in second hand leather) suddenly justifies all other ethical violation by the nonvegan:-)

Even though that's not a legitimate response, I explicitly, for example, wear shoes which are decidedly non-leather looking. I also get some enjoyment from the desperate scan the nonvegan conducts after I reveal myself as one. Some of them even take in the breath of air to say "but what about the leather shoes", to choke it off after 10 long seconds of staring intensely at my feet:-))

[fredrikw]

The question would have been different if the car was new. Buying a used car with leather fittings is not an ethical dilemma (as far as cars can not be an ethical dilemma), because as Fox said you did not partake in the violation of animals, the first person who bought that car did.

Well, this really depends on the view you have on demand and supply. One simplified view is that you are taking a leather item out of second hand circulation, which means one less item for someone to buy instead of a new item. For example, I sold a pair of old leather cycling shoes from my pre-vegan days to a non-vegan friend who otherwise would have bought a new pair.

Also, there's a strong political part of it as well, if a dedicated vegan can't be bothered to find non-leather alternatives, why should anyone else?