Negative mindset when training self-defense

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Postby SpugFab » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:29 pm

[quote="emm7"]spug you are taking the michael, right?
Smiling and being happy isn't going to help me when a dodgy man is attempting to follow me home after dark. But self defence skills might.
Smiling and being happy will come later when I get home in one piece with life and limb intact.

Nah I'm not taking the piss, but this thread doesn't directly relate to your situation, I'm generalising.

Smiling and being happy isn't meant to be a self-defense tactic, but it is a very nice thing to have in your life. I'm asking if dedicating yourself to self-defense (so that it becomes second nature) could cause some risk to obtaining that happiness. Constant reinforcement of the risk posed could be a very negative and very powerful thing...

For a self defense class to give you a true idea of the dangers you face out there on the streets they'd sit you down and give you a cup of tea and have a chat 99 classes out of 100.

And in all honestly self defense skills are going to change the outcome of most confrontations very slightly. Sad but true :?
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Postby SpugFab » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:36 pm

[quote="Edison Carasio"]This isn't something you sit and think about 24/7 like I think you are implying Spug.

Nah I'm not implying that at all.

Witness the original post - take away the physical element and instead have a number of hours a week where you meditate on the dangers. I'm not saying it's a 24/7 meditation, but that's still a large negative mental effort to undergo each week, each month, each year, each decade.

People can lose perspective.

How do the non-martial artists in your neighbourhood survive?

The likelihood is that the people you've had to restrain or deliver groin/eye strikes to would have been restrained/defeated by the version of yourself that has had no martial arts training. The SpugFu trained version of yourself would certainly have had no problems.
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Postby Edison Carasio » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:49 pm

[quote="spug_myers"][quote="Edison Carasio"]This isn't something you sit and think about 24/7 like I think you are implying Spug.



How do the non-martial artists in your neighbourhood survive?



They survive with guns, knives, gangs etc. Or not at all. My neighborhood isn't THAT bad, but there have been about 5 stabbings, one shooting, and multiple fist fights over the past 2 or 3 years. Those are normally American style hicks fighting over beer, an ugly women, etc. But I still have to be aware that those people's wannabe thug kids could pick a fight with me, jump me etc because I drive a nice car or don't dress like them.

And I don't have to meditate on or even think about using self defense every day, or every week etc. It's a second nature because you don't think about it. Self defense isn't something you have to live your life thinking about. It's knowledge commited to memory and is conditioned to not have to be thought about. What you are talking about Spug is paranoia. That's something different all together. I walk around laughing with freinds, enjoying a picnic, enjoying a jog through a forest trail.

I enjoying driving my car, with the windows down and good music on the radio. But I know that I could get in an accident at any time. Am I living life in fear because I think about getting in a wreck when I click my seat belt?
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Re: Negative mindset when training self-defense

Postby tempehmomma » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:59 pm

[quote="The Duke"][quote="tempehmomma"]I don't have any negative thinking that comes along with practicing martial arts. I don't contemplate the worse that could happen to me except getting sued or charged with a felony. I've never been attacked, beat up, mugged and I don't train for sport.

I train so the next time someone wants a piece of me I'll cripple that motherfucker and they'll regret talking trash or putting there hands on me for the rest of their natural life.


What is wrong with this picture?
What's wrong with this picture? :? Some people mistake kindness for weakness. :x

I got verbally picked on in high school and adult "men" have talked trash and made sorry ass attempts to threaten to kick my ass on a few occassions, however they never act on it. :lol:

I can defend myself from not getting hurt if I need too, but that's not enough. I want to inflict pain and give somebody a serious beatdown. :twisted:
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Re: Negative mindset when training self-defense

Postby SpugFab » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:06 pm

Ah. But Edison, son, you are but young. The negative reinforcement sinks in over a number of years. Already I see the seeds of the taxi driver within you. You must renounce hate and embrace SpugFu.

Before it is too late....

too late...

[quote="the ghost of christmas future"]I can defend myself from not getting hurt if I need too, but that's not enough. I want to inflict pain and give somebody a serious beatdown. :twisted:
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Postby ninearms » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:17 pm

Think about the numbers:

- What are the chances of any person being involved in a violent incident?
- What are the chances of someone in your demographic being involved in a violent incident?
- What are the chances of someone in your demographic being involved in a violent incident with a stranger?
- What are the chances of someone in your demographic being involved in a violent incident with a stranger which happens without warning?
- What are the chances of self-sefence training significantly altering the outcome of someone in your demographic being involved in a violent incident with a stranger which happens without warning?
“Begin at the beginning,” the King said gravely, “and go on till you come to the end. Then stop.”
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Postby SpugFab » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:22 pm

[quote="Edison Carasio"]Am I living life in fear because I think about getting in a wreck when I click my seat belt?

Hmmm, maybe a little morbid and unSpugFuish, but I think I can let you away with this one.

But if you decided to take twice weekly classes reinforcing the importance of putting your seatbelt on and making sure doing so is "second nature", then I might think you'd lost your sense of perspective.
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Re: Negative mindset when training self-defense

Postby Edison Carasio » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:26 pm

[quote="spug_myers"]Ah. But Edison, son, you are but young. The negative reinforcement sinks in over a number of years. Already I see the seeds of the taxi driver within you. You must renounce hate and embrace SpugFu.

Before it is too late....

too late...

[quote="the ghost of christmas future"]I can defend myself from not getting hurt if I need too, but that's not enough. I want to inflict pain and give somebody a serious beatdown. :twisted:


You shut up you! You wanna fight or something?!?!??!?!?!?!?!

:lol:
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Postby The Duke » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:48 pm

Let's try this ...

I've trained a bit with an American called Paul Vunak.

He has a little phrase he applies to "locks, flips, and throws" in a fight.

He says "They are accidental if not incidental". Meaning if they actually present themselves to you in a confrontation without you having to go looking for them or contriving an entry for them then by all means use them as a means to an end.

"Accidental if not incidental".

I think that is a healthy relationship between studying martial arts and self defense.

The ability to defend yourself is a by product of many of the other facets and benefits that training in Martial Arts can give you.

"Accidental if not incidental".

NB Paul would occasionally say "incidental if not accidental" but I think his meaning is clear.
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Postby HumanGazelle » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:55 pm

SpugFu makes sense. Rather than revising in your head or through muscle memory all the 150 ways you know to floor an opponent, use your paranoia for making decisions like crossing the road to avoid youths, choosing a sensible route home, leaving a pub before it gets nasty, avoiding eye-contact, not drawing attention to yourself. A healthy level of paranoia that is; not so much that you can't leave your house.

[quote="ninearms"]- What are the chances of self-sefence training significantly altering the outcome of someone in your demographic being involved in a violent incident with a stranger which happens without warning?


Exactly. I only two anecdotes of martial artists I've met where they performed one clean kick and it intimidated their opponent into a cease-fire, as opposed to dozens of anecdotes where a fight was won by one party brandishing a knife, headbutting, biting, glassing, stamping etc. Mostly fights aren't won by skill or prowess, they're won by being unafraid of the consequences of severely damaging your opponent. In other words, by sociopaths. How is that healthy? Who would want to pump their aggression levels up so much that they're constantly fantasising about how to inflict pain and damage, about how much other people deserve it, about how much some people need putting in their place (even if they do)? You'll lose the ability to relate to people. I don't particularly want to relate to thugs but neither do I want to get off on the knowledge I could take them. Before long that leads to wanting to test your abilities, waiting for the opportunity to prove yourself, soon enough you'll be encouraging a situation instead of avoiding it. That's the path to the Dark Side.
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Re: Negative mindset when training self-defense

Postby SpugFab » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:06 pm

[quote="Edison Carasio"]You shut up you! You wanna fight or something?!?!??!?!?!?!?!

Easy there tiger.

I'm not going to mess with a man who does twice weekly seatbelt drill classes WHEN HE DOESN'T EVEN INTEND TO DRIVE :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Postby SpugFab » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:10 pm

[quote="HumanGazelle"] A healthy level of paranoia that is; not so much that you can't leave your house.

Woah, that sounds more like GazFu to me. Slightly paranoid but still healthy enough.

In SpugFu your boundless energy and enthusiasm DRIVES you out the house. Gangs of youths are soon engaged in games of street volleyball. Pubs don't become nasty as everyone knows your name.

Embrace the shuttlecock.
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Postby ninearms » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:15 pm

I walked past 2 volleyball games on my way home from work this afternoon, so I think Spug's onto something.
“Begin at the beginning,” the King said gravely, “and go on till you come to the end. Then stop.”
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Postby emm7 » Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:12 pm

I would love for Spug's vision of world happiness, badminton and volleyball to come true. I would definitely be voting for that.

But there are people you meet every day (whether strangers or people you know) who are unfortunately lacking in the kind of emotional equipment needed to be able to achieve Spug's vision. The most important piece of equipment I am referring to is empathy.

There are many people who don't have empathy. The only feelings they recognise and care about are their own. They are narcissists and abusive. These people cause a great deal of damage. They are not only locked away in jails. At least one of them is in every workplace, school, etc. They may even be ordering a drink next to you in the bar. They are good at deceit and acting sweetly when it suits their interests but behind closed doors, or when aggravated, it is a very different matter. Note that this behaviour is not gender specific.

If Spug's vision is to be achieved then the problem is how to deal with the people without empathy.

Until a viable solution is found then I'm afraid I will be paying keen attention to the self defence tips.
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Re: Negative mindset when training self-defense

Postby Edison Carasio » Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:13 pm

[quote="spug_myers"][quote="Edison Carasio"]You shut up you! You wanna fight or something?!?!??!?!?!?!?!

Easy there tiger.

I'm not going to mess with a man who does twice weekly seatbelt drill classes WHEN HE DOESN'T EVEN INTEND TO DRIVE :shock: :shock: :shock:


My Safety Belt Fu is very strong!

*swings seat belt like nunchaku*
Wahhhhhhh!!
*dramatically catches both ends and clicks buckle*
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