Supplements Taken By You Guys?

[hagard]

Not that I am sayin that these substances are in any way bad, but reading about this really gives me an understanding of how illegal substances can spread in a group of people (such as the tour). Because reading about this I'm starting to think that one can not be without these things you are eating that I have never heard of. At least not if one wants to be able to go as fast as others. Sort of like that training hard isn't enough. Makes me doubt whether I can really be sure that I would be able to refuse a mysterious doctor approaching me if I were a professional cyclist.

[hagard]

Hmmm, my English isn't good enough to be sure that didn't sound like an accusation, because it wasn't intended as one and I wouldn't want it to be read as one. I am only a bit disappointed in my own inability to trust that training and bananas alone is all you need.

[JohnBarleycorn]

Not that I am sayin that these substances are in any way bad, but reading about this really gives me an understanding of how illegal substances can spread in a group of people (such as the tour). Because reading about this I'm starting to think that one can not be without these things you are eating that I have never heard of. At least not if one wants to be able to go as fast as others. Sort of like that training hard isn't enough. Makes me doubt whether I can really be sure that I would be able to refuse a mysterious doctor approaching me if I were a professional cyclist.

Your English is better than my Swedish !

These things, in the main, are to help an athlete recover from training, so that the athlete is able to train again, at a high level, and hopefully get fitter. We all know, I hope, that there is no substitute for training. But for me, if I can recover more quickly, then I can train harder, and maybe reach my goals.

Most illegal substances in sport, are illegal because they have the potential to damage health. I have ridden at quite a high level, in France, and have seen things, in older cyclists, that would scare anyone. One former King of the Mountains, I remember, when he drank a glass of water, it came straight out, within ten minutes. His kidneys were totally wrecked from using illegal drugs. Anyway, these substances we have discussed are not harmful, at all, to the best of my knowlege. They are just to support us, in training.

There are plenty of people out there, riding on nothing. So if you want to be that way, you don't have to worry at all. If you have the ability, the drive and the determination, you can get to the top using nothing. You can eat a poor diet, and neglect your vitamins, and still make it.

But on here, we are all vegans, and have made choices regarding nutrition. Its an interesting point, but where does good nutrition end, and doping begin. I truly believe that being vegan gives me an edge over the competition. So should a vegan diet be banned ? I believe a vegan diet is better fuel for a cyclist than a meat based diet. So am I cheating ?

I think I have made the best choices, within the rules. So I will use whatever is within the rules, to beat the competition. Maca, wheatgrass, whatever. If its within the rules, and vegan, and may give me an edge, I am up for it.

But being vegan, and taking maca, is not going to give the the improvement, in the short term, that an injection of Belgian Pot will give me. But over a number of years, being vegan will be healthy, while taking Pot Belge will, at best, make me an addict, and at worse, kill me.

I can give you a protocol, of 125mg of Testosterone Cyp, every four days, an arimidex or tamoxifen tab every day, some equipoise injected once a week, and some Stanazol tabs, taken three times a day, that will make you feel like a Tour de France winner. You'll be able to train hard, every day. But over five years, it will give you serious health problems. Taking some Maca, and the other things we have talked about will just help us 'pure' athletes be the best we can be.

Hope that puts your fears to rest !

[JohnBarleycorn]

Hmmm, my English isn't good enough to be sure that didn't sound like an accusation, because it wasn't intended as one and I wouldn't want it to be read as one. I am only a bit disappointed in my own inability to trust that training and bananas alone is all you need.

Training and bananas may well be all you need ! Lets hope so ! But thats as part of a vegan, healthy diet anyway. So you already have an unfair advantage over the meat eaters !

[Dave Noisy]

125mg of Testosterone Cyp, every four days, an arimidex or tamoxifen tab every day, some equipoise injected once a week, and some Stanazol tabs, taken three times a day

We must have the same doctor, funny tho, i'm only taking 100mg of T, should i up that, or is that based on your mass?

=P

[JohnBarleycorn]

Ha Ha !

I believe anything under 150mg is safe to limit side effects, but the best benefits come from 125mg. You must check with the doctor, next time you are in Madrid. I think 100mg may be ok. I think it boosts your test by about 100 times over normal levels. But 125mg is better !

Or so I have been told !

[RawKev]

Drugs are bad mmmmnkay

And here I was thinking all along that it was just the Brawndo that has been contributing to Dave's great performance as of late. I knew it was a gateway drug... Shame, I just ordered a years supply so that I could be fast too.

On a more serious note...

I find it hard to believe that taking all of those roids and test would do much good for a cyclists performance, except for maybe a pure track sprinter?

Steroids and testosterone cause water retention so wouldn't the extra water weight be counter productive? I guess you wouldn't retain much water if your kidneys are fried and you are pissing it all out... Do the "dopers" really use this many different compounds??? I though EPO and blood doping was the cats meow and the infamous HGH...

Q for Dave and anyone else... Have you found any studies on Maca increasing testosterone production in males with an already normal level? It is said to be a hormonal "regulator" but I'm curious if it has the potential to boost in any way. It has also been shown to increase libido, which leads me to believe that it increases testosterone, but the positive effects are probably most noticeable in older men with very low testosterone levels.

I've been off Maca for a few months now as well as the Cordyceps. Maybe I'll give them a go again and see if I notice anything.

[Fallen_Horse]

Just throwing in my late reply.


B12
Gemma protein
Creatine Mono
BCAA powder
sometimes a multi

[Dave Noisy]

And here I was thinking all along that it was just the Brawndo that has been contributing to Dave's great performance as of late. I knew it was a gateway drug... Shame, I just ordered a years supply so that I could be fast too.

IT'S GOT ELECTROLYTES!! IT'S GOT WHAT PLANTS WANT!!!

Q for Dave and anyone else... Have you found any studies on Maca increasing testosterone production in males with an already normal level? It is said to be a hormonal "regulator" but I'm curious if it has the potential to boost in any way. It has also been shown to increase libido, which leads me to believe that it increases testosterone, but the positive effects are probably most noticeable in older men with very low testosterone levels.

hmmm..unsure...Andy would prolly be able to answer that.

I've been off Maca for a few months now as well as the Cordyceps. Maybe I'll give them a go again and see if I notice anything.

I'm surprised you're off the cordy's! I thought you got good results from them?

[JohnBarleycorn]

Drugs are bad mmmmnkay

And here I was thinking all along that it was just the Brawndo that has been contributing to Dave's great performance as of late. I knew it was a gateway drug... Shame, I just ordered a years supply so that I could be fast too.

On a more serious note...

I find it hard to believe that taking all of those roids and test would do much good for a cyclists performance, except for maybe a pure track sprinter?

Steroids and testosterone cause water retention so wouldn't the extra water weight be counter productive? I guess you wouldn't retain much water if your kidneys are fried and you are pissing it all out... Do the "dopers" really use this many different compounds??? I though EPO and blood doping was the cats meow and the infamous HGH...

Q for Dave and anyone else... Have you found any studies on Maca increasing testosterone production in males with an already normal level? It is said to be a hormonal "regulator" but I'm curious if it has the potential to boost in any way. It has also been shown to increase libido, which leads me to believe that it increases testosterone, but the positive effects are probably most noticeable in older men with very low testosterone levels.

I've been off Maca for a few months now as well as the Cordyceps. Maybe I'll give them a go again and see if I notice anything.

Purely for information purposes, I don't recommend you try it......

The 125mg of test cyp should boost your testosterone levels, without any side effects. This protects muscle, during long periods of training, and boosts your recovery. You'll never feel tired after training....

Tamoxifen or arimidex will stop any side effects, water retention etc, in sensitive individuals. So not weight gain....

Equipoise aids general condition. Its good for recovery, so that you can train hard every day. Also, over the course of a season, it will add maybe two-four pounds of lean muscle.....

Stanazolol will aid recovery and general condition. Also strength.....

The first two, Test and tamoxifen, are a standard protocol for European cyclists. This type of combination has been used for at least twenty years. Probably a lot longer. No side effects, no water retention, plenty of benefits.

The second two, in combination, and with the first two, would make a big difference, over the course of a season. Both track and road riders will benefit. I guarantee that the majority of top class, and high level European cyclists have used this, at some time. Maybe a track rider would take 150mg of test. But after that, the side effects could become more of a problem.

In the sixties, 600mg plus, of testosterone would be used. Hence massive problems and side effects.

But I also guarantee that this is common in athletics, tennis, swimming, football, and many other sports. Its just that cycling has tried to stamp it out, while other sports bury their heads in the sand.

[Dave Noisy]

haha..i'm going to stick to the whole food supplements, with the exception of creatine. ;)

[JohnBarleycorn]

Me too !

Anyway, injections make me shudder !

Wheatgrass may taste dodgy, but at least its healthy !

[aardvarkboy]

Thanks for the tips re the maca - only problem is I don't like the taste of it at all! I can only really handle it in smoothies, but not on it's own. I get on well with spiulina though, I love that stuff.

[Gelert]

Tamoxifen.

So, these peeps are really taking an anti cancer adjuvant therapy, prescription only drug to improve performance?

Hm.

So do the dosages suggested limit the risk of pulmonary emboli, and incidentally, about 10 % of women on tamoxifen have fluid retention and/or weight gain.

Anyway, I think they should legalise all ergogenic aids. Sod the health consqeuences, death is nature's way of telling you you've failed, after all. And then all kinds of sports would be really interesting to watch. Just think, high jumpers would need oxygen supplies. Just think how extreme snooker could be given the right blend of goods.

[RawKev]

Thanks for the tips re the maca - only problem is I don't like the taste of it at all! I can only really handle it in smoothies, but not on it's own. I get on well with spiulina though, I love that stuff.

Maca is available in VegCaps if you can't stand the taste. The powder is usually cheaper then the caps gram for gram but you could always buy your own VegCaps and make your own.