which form shall i do?

[atlas dan]

Hey guys, i am just about to finish university and move back to my hometown. Once back i am going to start attending a regular martial art. I used to do Kung fo and was quite content with that but i want to do something that is priliminary based on self defense rather than combat. I may even start with a low level self defence class and once i have mastered that move onto a form. So my question to you guys is what would you suggest i look into which has alot of self defence related techniques rather than all out combat or boxing /kickboxing type stuff. Also i want something that is more moves based rather than has loads of circuit training and fitness because i will be going to the gym three times a week also so dont want it to interfere with my training. anyone got anything in mind. thanks very much in advance

[Muay Jin]

I think the one you want is krav maga? thats pretty self-defense based.

[feck]

Aikido - everything is defense

[Dominance]

priliminary based on self defense rather than combat.

Hi, could you explain that a bit more? Because in my mind self defense/combat relate to the same thing, just on a different level.. combat being more extreme..

I may be wrong, but it sounds to me that you want a static class where you learn some techniques and practice them on willing partners.. which is not effective in self defense anyway..

But i'm trying to get my head around what you mean, so if you could express it in a different way?

-Ben

[atlas dan]

Ok thanks for your comment, I simply want to learn to defend myself for emergency use if i need to, rather than join a club and be actively involved in physical contact combat. Perhaps i should just stick with a self defence class and then more up from there when i have gotten confident at it. Thanks ill also check out Aikido thanks for that tip.

[feck]

atlas,

aikido might be the style your looking for. The basic translation of the style is the art of peace & harmony, where you have to have a full respect for your enemy or uke in a practice situation. There is no full contact in the style, so do not be concerned that you would walk into a dojo full of macho bullies trying to impress their technique upon you.
Every technique learnt in a class is practised both as the attacker and as the defender, and you take turns as each. Utter respect must be practised at all times because most if not all of the techniques can be used to inflict extreme pain, break bones and take away someones life.

Heres a link to a youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aicHsMC6rxM, just to give you some idea of what to expect. The attacker part must be learnt to such a degree as to make the fall and throws completely painless. I know it looks painfull but most classes, are run in a joyous mode.

[atlas dan]

Hi feck, thanks alot i have been watching loads of videos and it looks like just what i am after, i really like the evasion techniques, gonna keep looking but see if there is going to be a class local to where i am moving to. thanks for your help.

[puppydog]

i am no expert but. . . if you want to be able to defend yourself in a real situation i wouldn't recommend aikido.

i wouldn't recommend any system that has the 'soft' overcoming the 'hard' and using an opponents energy and momentum against them. Any system that requires high technical skill to be applied in real life is a poor choice for self defense I think.

I'd concentrate on getting as strong physicall as possible. My experience has been that bigger/stronger guys end up winning fights in most instances.

[Muay Jin]

Heh! Omar's probably right lol, I bet no-one ever gives any of our 100kg+ power lifting folk any grief =)

[feck]

My experience has been that bigger/stronger guys end up winning fights in most instances.

I dont want to sound negative or confrontational, but what sort of experience is that omar?, if your talking about watching competitions, then yes in the end most bigger guys/girls win. Remember though that every competition event has rules, and the stage is set for a fight from the bell being rung.

Most real fight situations, you can appease an aggressive person and walk away without anyone getting hurt apart from fragile egos, there are no bells, no rules, and weapons can be involved. How would the largest of us fair against multiple attackers? how would a strong person fend off a stronger person.

I, in my past have been pretty athletic, and strong, and i can tell you i have had problems fending off an attack from someone in their early 70's, who you would not look twice at in the street and who became immovable when i tried to attack. I have been chucked across a room by a teenage girl, and at the time i weighed around 13 stone of extremely lean muscle.
I have been bullied by someone who was twice the size of me at a concert ( he was actually trying to push me away from where he was dancing when there was no room, and started to put his cigarette out on my arm) and a simple choke hold for 5 seconds and the threat of extreme violence whispered in his ear, made him and his mates leave the concert.
Now do not get me wrong i'm not bragging, and am not usually violent in any way, and in fact the concert incident i carried around with me for days going over it in my head seeing if i could have handled that any other way, but in the end i felt justified in what i had done.

Also remember strength no matter how great is nothing without balance, and once on the floor, i can run away pretty fast! LOL.

Anyway aikido is not the be all and end all of anything, its just that i've tried numerous style's and been introduced to countless instructors, most of which think their style is unbeatable. Some classes i've been to are nothing but teaching people exactly what you have suggested, that strength and size matter the most, that would lead me to believe that i cannot fight anyone bigger than me and should run as fast as possible.

If you teach people just to concentrate on size and strength, then confidence, speed, agility and stamina must count for nothing.
More importantly no matter how fast strong and big you are if you cannot touch, punch or grab me then you cannot hurt me, and then that leaves it up to me if i want to hurt you.

[puppydog]

My experience has been that bigger/stronger guys end up winning fights in most instances.

I dont want to sound negative or confrontational, but what sort of experience is that omar?, if your talking about watching competitions, then yes in the end most bigger guys/girls win. Remember though that every competition event has rules, and the stage is set for a fight from the bell being rung.

no worries, you don't sound confrontational. I'm talking about fights that happen with strangers in real situations like bars, or in heated altercations, or sometimes in sporting events like hockey or soccer. I've had my share of scraps, although not for many years thankfully.
I've also taken a couple years of kung-fu but I don't put a lot of emphasis on that.

Most real fight situations, you can appease an aggressive person and walk away without anyone getting hurt apart from fragile egos, there are no bells, no rules, and weapons can be involved. How would the largest of us fair against multiple attackers? how would a strong person fend off a stronger person.

Agree that it's best to get away without fighting. When I think of "self-defense" I'm thinking of situations where you really have no choice and have been attacked despite perhaps trying to defuse. As far as mutliple attackers and weapons goes, no martial art will protect you from a guy sneaking up with a baseball bat and clocking you in the head, as happened to a friend of mine here recently when he was beaten and mugged by 3 dudes. He's 6foot3.

Also remember strength no matter how great is nothing without balance, and once on the floor, i can run away pretty fast! LOL.

Anyway aikido is not the be all and end all of anything, its just that i've tried numerous style's and been introduced to countless instructors, most of which think their style is unbeatable. Some classes i've been to are nothing but teaching people exactly what you have suggested, that strength and size matter the most, that would lead me to believe that i cannot fight anyone bigger than me and should run as fast as possible.

If you teach people just to concentrate on size and strength, then confidence, speed, agility and stamina must count for nothing.
More importantly no matter how fast strong and big you are if you cannot touch, punch or grab me then you cannot hurt me, and then that leaves it up to me if i want to hurt you.

Yes all teachers think their style is the best, and that's a dumb way of thinking. I'm not saying that skill and other things like speed etc don't come in handy, and that they don't play a role in things. But in a real situation, the two things I think that matter most are not pissing yourself and freezing up (which martial arts can help with) and being big and strong, when you've got those covered - then you can try your five point palm exploding heart technique.

Like I said, it's my opinion and I'm no expert.

[feck]

Omar:

try your five point palm exploding heart technique

Ha!, your kung fu is weak old man. Buddhist palm is the shnizzle, i can sell you the secret lost teachings in pamphlet form for only $20.

[puppydog]

Omar:

try your five point palm exploding heart technique

Ha!, your kung fu is weak old man. Buddhist palm is the shnizzle, i can sell you the secret lost teachings in pamphlet form for only $20.

lol - i love that movie!

[IronRonin]

Coming from a life-long martial artist...who has done both old school traditional arts and now trains in modern MMA. I would seriously suggest seeking out a really good Brazilian Jiu Jitsu school, or finding a good MMA gym. Most traditional martial arts are incomplete, have stubborn instructors hung up on old ways, and are, sadly, VERY ineffective in a self-defense situation. I have seen ALL TOO MANY Karate/Kempo/Aikido "black belts" come to our gym and get slammed to the ground and sat on faster than they can say "KIAAAAAA!!!!" I am an ITF TKD black belt, and although I loved my TKD training, I realize that without my Muay thai and BJJ training I would be very, very lacking.

[XkillerX]

we all need to look back and read the teachings of the old man who's name shalt not be uttered on this forum ever again (unfortunately). oh yeah, read this too.

The self defence bit is as easy as pie.

Choose one technique that you can apply with power and conviction. It has to be a good technique that is capable of decking someone not something like a backfist or a single finger strike or double spinning reverse jumping roundhouse.

Make it something like a right cross, an elbow smash, or a knee to the groin.

Practice this one technique and nothing else.

When you need it use it. You won't be confused or wondering what to do in the milliseconds before you get decked, because your one technique will find its target.

Watch "The Fear Pyramid" by Geoff Thompson. Learn from "The Fear Pyramid" by Geoff Thompson. It might just stopped you getting knifed when you decide that grappling is a sensible choice for a street fight.

Ask yourself some very real questions about why you want to learn a martial art and if one of them is that your neighbourhood is so violent that you need Krav Maga to survive then personally I'd pocket the training money and use it to move somewhere safer.

this has nothing to do with VF but anyways...

fuck gun control. if you got a gun you dont have to work out. i aint working out! i aint jogging! you got pecs, i got tecs!