Veganism & drugs

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Veganism & drugs

Postby XDieguitoX » Wed Feb 11, 2004 9:16 pm

I have some friends who are in drugs and into veganism too ;( but for me veganism needs to be drug free, because smoke, alcohol, and these unnecessary things aren´t healthy for us, and not for the animals too.
I strong belive if you are more and more healthy,(or try) you don´t need to use any garbage like pharmacs and this kind of things,not only for be free of toxics,but for the animals..i don´t know if my words can express me.
I hate the drugs, because their use oppress you, don´t liberate as some people says... but i hate more the drugs because are tested on animals, and their use finance more this underground industry.
For me the key is stay away of drugs, a clean heart & body doesn´t need outside things, not for dream a new world, not for live everyday life.
We need to be natural, poison it´s natural?
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Postby Jinga » Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:02 pm

I guess it all depends on how you define veganism for yourself. Some people avoid products that are tested on or derived from animals, but don't feel drug-use, smoking, and the like are directly related to the issue of animal cruelty. Others believe, all drugs, including those prescribed by their doctor, interfere with the natural process of things. Many medical drugs/treatments are tested on animals, so that complicates the issue even more.

I view veganism as a compassion for all animals, including humans. The use of recreational drugs, tobacco, alcohol would be harmful to my body, and therefore, not a compassionate or healthy act. However, withholding medicine that would cure illness or relieve severe pain is not being compassionate to yourself either. Basically, I avoid taking anything for minor ailments, but this fall when I had a bacterial infection and severe fever for an extended period of time, I had little choice but to take anti-biotics so my body could recover. The choice is ultimately yours to decide. Everyone is different. What is good for one person, may not be for another.
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Totally agree

Postby XDieguitoX » Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:39 pm

I talked about "ilegal" drugs, sometimes i need to use antibiotics, if i have a big disease , but some things are "inevitable" like alcohol and these trash..
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Postby Malcolms Billy » Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:59 pm

Totally agree with you Dieguito! I used to be very unhealthy, smoking, drinking and doing all sorts. alcohol was the last thing i gave up a year ago, and I feel so much better for it! :D

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Postby Shinobi » Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:12 am

I quit alcohol as soon as I found out it reduces testosterone levels.
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Postby JP » Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:27 am

[quote="Shinobi"]I quit alcohol as soon as I found out it reduces testosterone levels.


It does? wow, never heard, but it does make sense.

Personally i think drug/alcohol issue is separate from veganism. It can have similarities with the underlying ethics and ideas of veganism but it is still a separate issue.

I don't drink and I stopped drinking before i went vegan. Often people think that I don't drink because i'm vegan, and therefore missing the point about veganism being about not consuming animal products.

Most vegans do drink, some huge amounts, or even use recreational drugs, especially here in UK :?
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Postby xJimx » Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:29 pm

Same here, people always assume that I don't drink because I can't be sure that alcoholic drinks are animal-free. It doesn't occur to most people that I don't drink purely through personal choice.

I've also noticed that a lot of 'normal' vegans (i.e. those not involved in the hardcore/straightedge scene) drink copious amounts and smoke lots of dope. Maybe this is a consequence of vegetarianism's association with the hippy scene of the past and the 'crusty' culture?
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Postby nanoking » Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:39 pm

Aren't we all sounding smug and superior. But are any of you LEVEL SIX vegans? Didn't think so.

Fine. I'll take the troll bait. I drink alcohol because it tastes good, the effects are pleasant, and my body can metabolize it fine. The more I train, the less I drink.

Oh and btw, alcohol INCREASES testosterone when taken in small amounts:

Alcohol Clin Exp Res. 2003 Apr;27(4):682-5.

BACKGROUND: Heavy acute alcohol drinking decreases blood testosterone in men due to an effect on the testicular level. An acute increase in blood testosterone levels after a low alcohol dose has, however, recently been reported in women. The objective of this investigation was to study the effect of a low alcohol dose on testosterone in men and further elucidate the mechanism behind the effect by using 4-methylpyrazole, an inhibitor of alcohol metabolism. METHODS: A double-blind placebo-controlled interventional crossover trial in random order (n = 13). RESULTS: After intake of alcohol (0.5 g/kg, 10% w/v), an acute increase in plasma testosterone (from 13.5 +/- 1.2 nmol/liter to 16.0 +/- 1.6 nmol/liter, mean +/- SEM; p < 0.05), a decrease in androstenedione (from 5.1 +/- 0.4 nmol/liter to 4.0 +/- 0.3 nmol/liter; p < 0.05), and an increase in the testosterone:androstenedione ratio (from 2.8 +/- 0.3 to 4.2 +/- 0.4; p < 0.01) were observed. The effects were not observed during pretreatment with 4-methylpyrazole (10-15 mg/kg orally), which inhibited the ethanol elimination rate by 37 +/- 3%. CONCLUSIONS: Alcohol intake affects the androgen balance in men through an effect mediated by the alcohol-induced change in the redox state in the liver.
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Postby Malcolms Billy » Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:06 pm

[quote="nanoking"]Aren't we all sounding smug and superior. But are any of you LEVEL SIX vegans? Didn't think so.


I'm still none the wiser what constitutes a level six vegan, so I can't answer that question.
I do think that you sound very sarcastic, and to me it seems there is no need for that (before you start calling me a hippy, I'm as unhippy as they come, believe you me!).
If you can drink alcohol without any problems, then fine, so what? My personal reaction (I'm not speaking for anyone else) was about abusing my body for a great number of years and being glad that I've been able to stop it and feel good about it, for myself. It really doesn't bother me if anyone else, vegans or not, want to drink themselves silly. I can only think of the time I've wasted feeling sick and hung over and in the end for me it's not worth it. If it is for anyone else, then that's their decision.

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Postby JO » Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:33 pm

I don't drink alcohol, either. I have found that the more pollutants I ingest, the more haphazard my existence becomes, so I limit questionable substances to some coffee at the start of the day ... and sometimes I have espresso ... and of course marzipan, in controlled situations.

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Postby JP » Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:12 pm

I thought third level vegans were those who didn't eat anything which casts a shadow :lol: (from simpsons...)

Anyways nanoking, a troll is something quite different than what Dieguito is so please don't call him that.

Perhaps a poll on general discussion or here in the diet section about who does and who doesn't drink alcohol? My guess would have been on ANY OTHER vegan board that drinkers would have won 90%-10%. But this being a fitness board i'd guess a half way split.
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Postby stateofflux » Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:22 pm

As I'm an extremist and cannot even moderate my coffee intake- I don't use any alcohol or drugs. Not bad for someone who lived in Amsterdam for 9 years :wink:

Aside from that I think drugs and booze suck- and they affect more than just the user. My dad's an alchoholic and it's pretty heartbreaking to see how many people destroy their own lives, their family's lives and their community through alcohol and drug abuse. It's easy to loose control.

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Postby Pete » Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:44 pm

Nanoking said
[quote]Oh and btw, alcohol INCREASES testosterone when taken in small amounts:

Damn, I was gonna say that as I've just been reading about it, & in small amounts it also increases strength output & muscular endurance (affects last about 20 minutes on average).
I can't drink, as if I do it badly effects training, so it's either training or drinking. I obviously choose training (I'm a bit like Rochelle, it's all or nothing for me)
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Postby Jinga » Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:02 am

[quote="JP"]I thought third level vegans were those who didn't eat anything which casts a shadow :lol: (from simpsons...)


Unrelated to the thread ... but I love that show. Haha.

*Runs away*
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Postby xJimx » Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:55 am

[quote="nanoking"]Aren't we all sounding smug and superior. But are any of you LEVEL SIX vegans? Didn't think so.

Fine. I'll take the troll bait. I drink alcohol because it tastes good, the effects are pleasant, and my body can metabolize it fine. The more I train, the less I drink. quote]

It's not about being smug or superior, it's about personal choice. Every single person I know (including my wife before she got pregnant!) drinks alcohol; they don't tell me to drink and I don't tell not to drink.

By the way, you say 'the effects are pleasant' but what's so good about being drugged?
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