Flightlessbirds Flaps Forward to 2010 (Cycling)

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Postby fredrikw » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:12 pm

But then what should you call three repetitions of 20 minute intervals then? ;) Actually, in my training schedule they are called EB sessions, I have no idea what EB is an abbreviation for, but it's supposedly of german origin.

I think I'll have to live with you feeling offended by my recovery periods :) I trust my coach and that he knows what he's doing. As you know, these 2-3X20 sessions are not really about anaerobic buildup, the RPE of each interval should be the same throughout every interval, who knows whether the difference between 3 and 10 minute recovery is just a longer mental break than anything else. It's not like you have tons of lactic acid that needs to be flushed out or oxygen depleted muscles to aerobize :)
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Postby flightlessbirds » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:58 am

Mr. Cleetus wrote:

Intervals definitely make riding the trainer much more tolerable.


I don't disagree with that. I'll rarely get on my trainer and just ride.


I was trying really hard not to overdo things for the first while as I hadn't done much in the fall and was feeling like I needed to get back into things slowly. Just riding the trainer was pretty tough though and anything, even 20 minute intervals, will be much nicer in comparison!

Still sick, this sucks!
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Postby fredrikw » Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:20 pm

sorry about clogging your log here flightlessbirds, but seeing as you're sick there might perhaps be some space for this? :)

Mr. Cleetus wrote:what?!?! that's not a 2 (or 3) x20 then!! cheater. :P That's probably working slightly different systems than the traditional 2x20 (which are 2-3 min rest), but I couldnt really say exactly how. I'd imagine they could/should be done at slightly higher watts. Also explains why you can do 3. ;) You should ask your coach :) The idea with the short break is that it is really just a mental break and there is little recovery so you are effectively doing a longer threshold interval.

I asked my coach about this, and he said that the main reason for having a short rest is to help keeping the intensity right (avoid pushing above your threshold). Being a threshold interval, you could actually skip the rest all together and do 1x40 (or 1x60). So I guess the basic idea behind this kind of training is staying at your threshold for 40 or 60 minutes, and as you say taking some breaks might only have a mental effect (not to be devalued when you're in the trainer).

So, just for the hell of it my next session will be one long interval (1x40 minutes). I'm not sure I look forward to it, but it's going to be interesting :)
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Postby Mr. Cleetus » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:17 pm

fredrikw wrote:So, just for the hell of it my next session will be one long interval (1x40 minutes).


shouldn't that be 1x60min Mr. 3x20?? Sounds tough! Sounds like your coach and I are believing the same source on this - maybe you should listen to me more often. :twisted: kidding...

sounds like your workout is set flightless: 40min of torture on the trainer!
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Postby flightlessbirds » Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:36 pm

Ha! Dammit, I never agreed to this!

Hmmm, I have another workout in mind tonight but maybe I'll accept this 1 x 40 challenge soon.
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Postby fredrikw » Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:33 am

Mr. Cleetus wrote:shouldn't that be 1x60min Mr. 3x20?? Sounds tough!

The next session is in two weeks, and it's a 2x20, week following 3x15 and the next 3x20, so it varies a bit which is good I think :)

Sounds like your coach and I are believing the same source on this - maybe you should listen to me more often. :twisted: kidding...

yeah, as I said he knows his stuff :)

sounds like your workout is set flightless: 40min of torture on the trainer!

he he, that's harsch, I think it's good to start easy on these, and allow yourself a rest in the middle. :)
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Postby flightlessbirds » Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:51 pm

fredrikw wrote:
sounds like your workout is set flightless: 40min of torture on the trainer!

he he, that's harsch, I think it's good to start easy on these, and allow yourself a rest in the middle. :)


I think I need that mental and physical break in there. Makes things much nicer to think "just 5 more minutes until I'm done the first interval" than "uughhhhh, 25 more minutes."

Okay, here's some actual logging!

Monday - Climbing (1.5 hr) : Went to an indoor climbing gym in Toronto. First time I've been climbing in a really long time and the place was really nice. I am rather fond of heights and had a great time though I found it quite challenging and my arms and shoulders were sore for days. Feel like I did alright for someone who is pretty much a complete beginner.

Wednesday - Trainer (80 min) :
10 min warmup
25 min @ 82% of max HR
20 min @ 85% of max HR
15 min @ 88% of max HR
10 min cooldown
To keep things interesting I maintained my HR while switching between the small and big ring every 2 minutes.

This ended up being much more difficult than I intended it to be. I just kind of guessed at my max HR and I don't even think max HR is a good parameter to use but I don't really have a great grasp on what my LTHR is either. I would guess that my last 15 minute interval there was at threshold or slightly above.
After 10 minutes of the first interval I thought there was no way I was going to make it through the whole workout but I just stuck to it and obeyed the HR monitor and it felt great. Painful, but great.

If I was doing a group ride on the road and pushing the same effort as I did during this trainer workout, I wouldn't think "I'll never make it!" I just keep up. On my own I find I doubt myself a lot more and then don't push as hard as I could. Definitely a mental thing I need to improve as I find this doubt creeps into my racing frequently.

New Priority: Testing! Need to determine some accurate numbers for my HR monitor!
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Postby fredrikw » Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:51 pm

Doesn't Friel suggest a way of determining LTHR other than a Conconi test?

Anyway, for those threshold intervals you can also see where you end up when you're at an intensity that you can hold all intervals. On these intervals HR will slowly build up to around your threshold, and you're might not hit it until after 5-10 minutes, so if you're aiming at getting it up right away you'll be pushing too hard in the beginning (and probably too low at the end since you're worked above threshold for too long).

But I think that 25-20-15 effort was a good one, when I start doing these my coach have me doing only 2x10 minutes at start, gradually building up to 3x20 after several weeks.
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Postby flightlessbirds » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:07 pm

fredrikw wrote:Doesn't Friel suggest a way of determining LTHR other than a Conconi test?



I was planning on doing what Friel suggested. I think he just suggests using a forty minute time trial and using your average HR for the last twenty minutes. Or maybe it is a twenty minute and use the last ten minutes, I'll have to check.

It's pretty much as you suggested though with using your HR from the 2 x 20 intervals.

I'm basing my guess just from watching my HR monitor during all the rides I did with it last summer. It would always increase to a certain point and then hover around that HR (167 bpm). It would only increase again if I had to suddenly increase the effort, for example climbing a hill or chasing someone. I have never had my HR go over 188 bpm in the time I have had my HR monitor, which is what I based my maximum on.

In the workout I did last night with the 25-20-15, the 15 was at 167 bpm and that was really tough for 15 minutes after the preceeding two intervals and I don't think I could have held it for more than another 5 minutes. Maybe... Maybe I would have surprised myself and held it for longer.

Anyway, I am going to give the real test a try this week, prolly on Saturday and see what number I get out of that.
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Postby fredrikw » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:32 pm

sounds like you have a pretty good idea already, but it's always good to see if the test tells you otherwise.
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Postby flightlessbirds » Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:07 pm

Saturday - Trainer (80 min) :

I decided a 30 minute interval on the trainer would be horrible so I did 2 x 20 to try and get a better idea of my LTHR. I think it worked out pretty well.

20 min warmup
First interval - avg HR 167, max 173
5 min rest
Second interval - For last 15 min avg HR was 171 and max was 175.
15 min cooldown

Kept on the same gear at a cadence of about 95 rpm for the intervals to attempt to keep my power output consistent. Was definitely tough! Found out my LTHR is slightly higher than I had thought (171 instead of 167). I'll probably repeat this measurement every time I do the 2 x 20, or if I do a 1 x 30 or 1 x 40 at some point and see what the numbers say. Would be nice to have a few sampling points to average.

Sunday - Track (90 min) :
After heading down to the track to watch winter nationals last night we drove back down for the rec ride today. Had a decent ride. Not my finest, asthma was acting up a little, but still had a good time. There were a few nice fast pacelines at various points that were a good challenge. At a few points someone took off from the front of the paceline and I had a good time chasing them down when I came up to pull.

Think I might do a little track racing at some point if I can get down to do a few of the race training nights first.

Base 1 is over (FINALLY!). Base 2 commences!
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Postby flightlessbirds » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:28 pm

Base training continues this week.

Tuesday - Track (2 hr): Usual Tuesday night track ride is back on as my ride has returned from cyclocross worlds and various other European adventures. Felt really good for the first time in a while and had a good, solid ride with a few nice hard pushes.

Wednesday - Trainer (1 hr): Did five spin-ups on the trainer (increasing cadence to max over the course of a minute and then holding that as long as possible). While I still don't have my cadence sensor working I can still tell that I can spin much much better than I could at this time last year. I'm really happy with that improvement.

Thursday - Ride (2 hr 20 min) : It was sunny but very windy and kind of cold. My friend took me to a double track trail that I have never been to before. Some fresh snowfall made it quite challenging to ride with cross tires. Lots of skidding and sliding all over the place but I had a great time and managed to stay upright even on the bits that were pure ice. Did a bit of a roadie detour at the end to add a bit of extra time and out of the trees the wind was pretty brutal.

I've been really hungry lately and have been eating quite a bit but still seem to be losing weight so I supposed that is all good.
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Postby flightlessbirds » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:01 pm

Well I was going to make myself wait until next fall to get a new bike but I don't think I'm going to last that long with the amount of bicycle coveting I have been doing lately.

Going to test ride a bunch of bikes I'm considering and then see if anyone at the spring bike show has 2009 models on super-sale. They often do and I should be able to et something really nice for a steal. Also perusing the Canadian cyclist classifieds and there are some amazing deals on 2009s.

New bike! New bike! New bike!
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Postby Mr. Cleetus » Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:45 pm

Faaantastic! What ya wanna get?
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Postby flightlessbirds » Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:06 pm

Mr. Cleetus wrote:Faaantastic! What ya wanna get?


Not 100% sure yet, but I might be getting a really really sweet deal on one of these:
http://www.rideblue.com/ac1.php

Drooooool.

Trying to get on a new womens` team and they are sponsored by blue bike. Hoping to hear back today that they want me for sure, but it seems promising. I will definitely be pushed really hard and have great coaches, which will be awesome. I'm kind of ridiculously excited, actually.

To finish up the week:

Friday - Strength (1 hr)
Just a quick gym session. First one in too long and left me rather sore. Don't feel like typing out the whole workout.

Sunday - Ski (1.5 hr) + Trainer (1.5 hr) :
Finally got some xc skiing in since getting back from the holidays. The conditions are still not very good and there was almost no snow in places but we had a lot of fun.

After that I hopped on the trainer to get in another hour and a half to make up for my missed Saturday workout. Did the following workout:
http://www.turbotraining.co.uk/indoor_c ... php?id=225
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