Baldy learns to swim 3km/h

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Re: Baldy learns to swim 3km/h

Postby silver » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:19 pm

baldy wrote:What is your pace like now, what kind of progress can I expect?


By new year I was starting to swim at 1:40-45/100m, swimming 4-5 times a week 2km+ a session. Comfortably inside your 3km/h target.
My ideal target would be 3.9km/hr for ironman reasons. ( I still have a year and a half to get to that pace though.)

Background and log is all here. I'm just recovering from a 6 week break, due to a chest infection and that's dented my progress quite significantly.
http://www.veganfitness.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=24572

@Rodolfo, thanks :)
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Re: Baldy learns to swim 3km/h

Postby baldy » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:23 pm

silver wrote:
Background and log is all here. I'm just recovering from a 6 week break, due to a chest infection and that's dented my progress quite significantly.
http://www.veganfitness.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=24572

@Rodolfo, thanks :)

Awesome been reading through your log and gaining from the Tao of Rodolfo, tried to count my laps using the clock today, head wanted to explode.

Monday St Albans
================
Followed the new swim routine, Abs and biceps are sore with DOMS, program must be working.
100 Slow
100 Fast
200 Pace
100 Kick
200 Pull
100 Kick
200 Pace // 24 strokes over 25m length
100 Fast // 1:53
100 Slow

1.2km dunno the time cos forgot to take waterproof watch.

First time I have swam with a floaty thing between my legs, for the "pull" part. Interestingly during that set my hands touched the bottom of the shallow end. It used to do this when I swam in Ireland before, 0.9m in the shallow end. Which leads me to todays question for my internet swimming coaches. So I reach out as far as I can with my lead hand and then when I pull it back what should I be doing with my elbow, must be it locked or should I bend it away from my body so my hand tracks my centre line?
"A wise man once said, "It's easier to buy smaller clothes, than to put on 5kg." ... Buzz
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Re: Baldy learns to swim 3km/h

Postby xrodolfox » Wed May 01, 2013 11:41 am

baldy wrote:Awesome been reading through your log and gaining from the Tao of Rodolfo, tried to count my laps using the clock today, head wanted to explode.


maths.
this is how it should be. No need for a watch in the pool if you have a pool deck pace clock. This should have a prominent second's hand that you can use for pacing. I tend to make my sets go on either the x:00, x:30, x:15, x:20, or derivative multiples, for ease of counting. Thus, let's say I do 100m on 1:40 interval. I'll start when the clock hits the "0" at the top. Then swim swim swim 100m and touch the wall. I look at the clock. It'd be on the :31. That means I swam a 1:31/100m. Great! 9 seconds rest. I wait till the 1:40 and go again. Swim swim swim 100m. Touch the wall. Look at the clock. It's now on the :23. Ooof. That's a 1:33/100m. A bit slower. Only 7 seconds rest. I go on the :20 next time around. This helps me count, and also lets me see visually how fast I'm going immediately. It also helps me improve because if I change something in my stroke, I can see the effects immediately.

Using a pace clock on the deck is ideal. They are better than wrist watches, in general.

baldy wrote:Which leads me to todays question for my internet swimming coaches. So I reach out as far as I can with my lead hand and then when I pull it back what should I be doing with my elbow, must be it locked or should I bend it away from my body so my hand tracks my centre line?


Here's some article (some with video!)

NY Times
John Hopkins Medical Journal
Awesome PDF with pictures made by a AG swim coach

Basically, the dominant wisdom is that if someone were watching you swim directly towards them, the tips of your elbows would form a straight line through your back. Your forearms, however, would be at different angles, but close to 90 degrees, most of the time. Your finger tips would be almost directly underneath your center of gravity when you track your pull. The rest of your hand would be a bit off center. If you have a lot of rotation, your arm would be straighter. If you have less body roll, you might really have to bend that elbow. Ideally, you'd have enough roll to have your back and elbows between 45degrees and 66degrees off flat swimming when you roll. Remember, this is from a "top" view of someone looking at you as you swim towards them.

From the side, the angles change a lot. They would see the elbow "ahead" of the hand at all times. The elbow should never finish and isolate the triceps at the end of the pull. Ideally, this observer would see the hand pause when it's deep ahead, with the shoulder under the water, at the beginning of the pull. That should be a maximum reach... but the reach should be with the shoulder and never locking the elbow. Then the elbow should stay relatively high, and as soon as possible, the forearm should be at 90degrees. From that point forward, there should be an acceleration of the hand. The forearm and hand should be a complete unit now, always in a straight line. At the end, the hand should have massive acceleration and finish at the thigh.

That's it. That's the pull.
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Re: Baldy learns to swim 3km/h

Postby baldy » Wed May 01, 2013 7:25 pm

Awesome reply coach, will need to reread a few times visualise and dry land practise when no one is looking.

Wednesday
==========
Little bit tired from work, good to get in the pool.
100 Slow
100 Fast
200 Pace
100 Kick // I officially suck at kicking, I look down and its like I am not even moving. Was taught/told that triathletes dont kick when they swim?
200 Pull // something fell in place by changing my elbow angle.
Then I got thrown out of the pool! Wednesday night is ladies night at the pool, which is unlike ladies night at a club.

20:22 minutes 700m just over 2.1km an hour
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Re: Baldy learns to swim 3km/h

Postby skoptic » Thu May 02, 2013 3:00 pm

Glad the swimming is going well. I've got a couple of swim train DVD rips.. I'll sort them cause it helps visualise some stuff.

P.S. triathletes do kick, just most of them are shit at it, so they say they don't ;) Get the power from the hip and don't go bending at the knee... :)
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Re: Baldy learns to swim 3km/h

Postby xrodolfox » Thu May 02, 2013 7:13 pm

skoptic wrote:Triathletes do kick, just most of them are shit at it, so they say they don't ;) Get the power from the hip and don't go bending at the knee... :)


This is true.
Kicking practice is probably even more important for Triathletes than swimmers. Triathletes do kick, but their kicks are often so poor that they pull them backwards. Practicing good kick allows 1) kick to propel forward and 2) kick to use a lot less energy and 3) balance.

Besides good kick practice, it's also really good to practice a few sets w/out a pull buoy but without kicking at all... yet keeping the body balanced. That's difficult, but it really helps. Doing those pulls w/out buoys alternated with kick sets is really good practice for triathletes.

skoptic wrote:Get the power from the hip and don't go bending at the knee... :)


This is the part that's very true. Also add: POINT YOUR TOES.
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Re: Baldy learns to swim 3km/h

Postby baldy » Sun May 05, 2013 10:06 am

xrodolfox wrote:
skoptic wrote:Get the power from the hip and don't go bending at the knee... :)


This is the part that's very true. Also add: POINT YOUR TOES.

Today was thinking about HIPS and TOES.

Sunday morning woking pool
=========================
100 Slow
100 Fast
200 Pace
100 Kick
200 Pull // 18 strokes over 25 m a whooping 6 less that last week sans bouy. Dunno what my target is.
100 Kick
200 Pace
100 Fast // 1:45 PB! might have been fast but hit traffic on last lap.
100 Slow

1200m 39:10 minutes 1.8km/h the kicking kills my times, feels like hours kicking 100m.
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Re: Baldy learns to swim 3km/h

Postby xrodolfox » Sun May 05, 2013 11:06 am

Finding out that you are much more efficient pulling (no kick) than swimming (with kick) is a vital piece of information.

This is extremely common.

Without seeing you, there's no way for me to be 100% sure, but my guess is that you have a case of "runner's kick". That means you don't yet have the ankle flexibility to kick efficiently and thus your kick will lift up the legs (so its good for overall body position), but it will also pull you backwards.

There's cures for this, but the best route depends on important details that a good coach would have to witness first hand. You can try all three routes and just measure which is working best.

1) practice proper body position. That means you won't have to kick as much to stay horizontal in the water. This is about balance. I can write a few such drills later.

2) ankle flexibility. This usually requires specifically stretching the ankle before swimming, and using occasional LARGE flippers to dial it up.

3) learning what kick is best for you given your strengths and limitations. This unfortunately requires science and testing; it's timing kick sets and doing a lot of kick sets until you've figured it out. Folks who can't bend their ankles need to bend their knees more which also creates drag, but it may be better than going backwards. Perhaps you can flex your ankles at a certain part of the kick and you can use that. Idk. This is figuring that out.

I wish I was there to help. This issue is frankly easy to work on because IMO it's clear. Also, you will go much much faster and get less tired with a wetsuit in competition. If you don't have one, it'll be more worth it to you than most.
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Re: Baldy learns to swim 3km/h

Postby baldy » Tue May 07, 2013 8:17 pm

xrodolfox wrote:There's cures for this, but the best route depends on important details that a good coach would have to witness first hand. .

Damn coach is off swanning around the world at the moment, will book a session as soon as he is back in the country.

Nothing as humbling as trying to get a 100m PB and being over taken by an overweight teenager doing backstroke. :roll:

After work St Albans Pool
=========================
100 Slow
100 Fast
200 Pace
100 Kick
200 Pull
100 Kick
200 Pace
100 Fast // same time as last session
100 Slow

1200m 37 minutes, less breaks and less strict kicking drills. Pool was packed.
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Re: Baldy learns to swim 3km/h

Postby baldy » Thu May 09, 2013 7:39 pm

After work St Albans Pool
=========================
100 Slow
100 Fast // 1:45
200 Pace
100 Kick
200 Pull
100 Kick
100 Pull
200 Pace
100 Fast // 1:48
100 Slow

1300m 37:35 slowly creeping the distance up and time down. Have not cracked the kicking yet, going a bit fast but doesn't feel like it have clicked yet.
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Re: Baldy learns to swim 3km/h

Postby baldy » Sun May 12, 2013 12:12 pm

Sunday Rehab session
======================
10 Minutes stationary bike up to 405 watts // looked at the watts table and was not as impressive as it felt.
3x12 leg press with left leg
3x12 leg curls // with wrong machine bleh..
OH Press: 5x20kg,30kg, 40kg 3x5 50kg // shouldnt feel so heavy
Pull ups super setted with curls: 1,2,3,4
reverse one leg plank/locust: 5 left 2 right

Home in time for Spanish GP.
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Re: Baldy learns to swim 3km/h

Postby kallefs » Sun May 12, 2013 3:44 pm

Cool that the bike has a power-meter!
Dum di dum!
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