Frugivore / omnivore / carnivore

Anything not covered above probably belongs here!

Moderators: hardcore iv, fredrikw, JP, stateofflux, bronco

?

Postby grant » Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:13 am

"the region.... All of those factors affect the type of diet available and the stage of evolution. "

Are you suggesting that you believe that, for example, the inuit have 'evolved' into "carnivores" from living on a diet of blubber? I dont buy that, sorry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEFZx7VWMJs

"Truth has to be repeated constantly, because Error also is being preached all the time, and not just by a few, but by the multitude. In the Press and Encyclopaedias, in Schools and Universities, everywhere Error holds sway, feeling happy and comfortable in the knowledge of having Majority on its side."----Goethe
grant
Active Member
 
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 9:04 am
Location: Manchester, England

Postby Dave Noisy » Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:28 am

I believe they actually *have* adapted to the difference..for example, i don't believe Inuit need to eat vitamin C....might be wrong tho...
User avatar
Dave Noisy
Active Member
 
Posts: 6767
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 8:04 pm
Location: Victoria, BC

?

Postby grant » Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:38 am

[quote="Dave Noisy"]I believe they actually *have* adapted to the difference..for example, i don't believe Inuit need to eat vitamin C....might be wrong tho...



I believe that caribou or something like contain appreciable amounts of vitamin C and the inuit get it there. I doubt they dont need vitamin C.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEFZx7VWMJs

"Truth has to be repeated constantly, because Error also is being preached all the time, and not just by a few, but by the multitude. In the Press and Encyclopaedias, in Schools and Universities, everywhere Error holds sway, feeling happy and comfortable in the knowledge of having Majority on its side."----Goethe
grant
Active Member
 
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 9:04 am
Location: Manchester, England

Re: ?

Postby veganmonk » Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:45 pm

[quote="grant"]"the region.... All of those factors affect the type of diet available and the stage of evolution. "

Are you suggesting that you believe that, for example, the inuit have 'evolved' into "carnivores" from living on a diet of blubber? I dont buy that, sorry.


Inuits don't have a choice based on their region and climate. There simply isn't vegetation to eat.

Our diets evolve based on many factors:

-what type of food is available in the region
-cultural influence/history
-outside influence (such as western influence to native indians)
-physical adaption over time to a specific diet

But regardless, I'd have to say that the answer to this thread is "herbivore". To me, it is clear that is what we originated as based on our physical attributes, and what we are healthiest as being, and what we should strive to become, based on all of our knowleage of it.

Omnivore/carnivore diets are simply conditional either by region/culture or societal influence.

So to those people that still live in indigenous societies or harsh climates, like the Inuit, they cannot be herbivores, but it doesn't mean that the human species isn't meant to be herbivores, or that we shouldn't be if possible.
User avatar
veganmonk
Active Member
 
Posts: 316
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:41 pm
Location: BC, Canada

Postby Wobbly Lifter » Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:20 pm

I've always liked the taste of meat(well I don't know if I still would), and never had any issues digesting meat either, so I would say humans are in general omnivores. I guess I'm a herbivore now though :P
Better Living Through Chemistry
User avatar
Wobbly Lifter
Active Member
 
Posts: 1672
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 6:37 am
Location: Edmonton, Alberta

Postby magnifico » Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:30 pm

Apparently people whose ancestors kept herd animals tend to be able to digest milk, cheese etc. well (eg 'white' people) and those for whom this isn't the case (eg 'oriental' people) tend to be lactose intolerant.

So westerners 'evolved' to be able to digest milk well because our ancestors who digested it best would have survived best in times of famine, whereas in other cultures that didn't have cattle around this made no difference.

I would imagine that at any point in human evolutionary history up until the last few thousand years an inability to digest meat would have been a serious evolutionary disadvantage, as it would have reduced the amount of food available.

I'd say we're clearly omnivores by 'nature', but that we are perfectly capable of ignoring this and being herbivores if we so desire.
User avatar
magnifico
Active Member
 
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:00 pm
Location: Northampton

Postby veganmonk » Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:21 pm

[quote="Wobbly Lifter"]I've always liked the taste of meat(well I don't know if I still would), and never had any issues digesting meat either, so I would say humans are in general omnivores. I guess I'm a herbivore now though :P


But you don't have the desire or ability to go up to an animal and kill them with your bare hands and eat them raw and bloody and digest that successfully do you?
User avatar
veganmonk
Active Member
 
Posts: 316
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:41 pm
Location: BC, Canada
Top

Postby veganmonk » Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:26 pm

[quote="magnifico"]I'd say we're clearly omnivores by 'nature', but that we are perfectly capable of ignoring this and being herbivores if we so desire.


It has been proven in studies and fossil evidence that we originated as herbivores on diets subsiting of fruits, nuts, and vegetation. And this makes complete sense based on our physical attributes compared to omni/carnivores. One such study is Man the Hunted:
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/02/050212190551.htm

The meat adaptation came in later, and not for all societies. Many societies have remained herbivores for ages.

Even native indians existed on primarily herbivore diets - contrary to popular belief:
http://www.animalvoices.ca/node/35
User avatar
veganmonk
Active Member
 
Posts: 316
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:41 pm
Location: BC, Canada
Top

Postby Wobbly Lifter » Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:32 pm

[quote="veganmonk"]
But you don't have the desire or ability to go up to an animal and kill them with your bare hands and eat them raw and bloody and digest that successfully do you?


Well, maybe I do have the desire, and with all the working out I do soon I'll have the ability too! :lol: (and I have eaten raw meat in the past and I didn't feel or get sick)

Also with a brain and the ability to make tools it is quite easy to kill things...
Better Living Through Chemistry
User avatar
Wobbly Lifter
Active Member
 
Posts: 1672
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 6:37 am
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Top

Postby veganmonk » Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:38 pm

[quote="Wobbly Lifter"][quote="veganmonk"]
But you don't have the desire or ability to go up to an animal and kill them with your bare hands and eat them raw and bloody and digest that successfully do you?


Well, maybe I do have the desire, and with all the working out I do soon I'll have the ability too! :lol: (and I have eaten raw meat in the past and I didn't feel or get sick)

Also with a brain and the ability to make tools it is quite easy to kill things...


Why are you vegan again? :shock:

I have absolutely no desire, and would starve before killing an animal for food, just like any other herbivore.

And I'd also have to say it requires more intelligence and brain power to be compassionate to animals, and also be aware of the damage to our health and planet as a result of killing animals.
User avatar
veganmonk
Active Member
 
Posts: 316
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:41 pm
Location: BC, Canada
Top

Postby Wobbly Lifter » Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:55 pm

[quote="veganmonk"]
Why are you vegan again? :shock:


Maybe becuase I think killing things because they taste good is wrong :roll:

Being vegan is a choice I made, not based on weather I like meat, or have the ability to kill animals, but based on compassion for others and protecting the health of our planet.

Note: I said maybe I desire to kill animals, I don't, but a lot of people do, i.e hunting.
Better Living Through Chemistry
User avatar
Wobbly Lifter
Active Member
 
Posts: 1672
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 6:37 am
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Top

Re: ?

Postby Dave Noisy » Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:40 pm

[quote="grant"][quote="Dave Noisy"]I believe they actually *have* adapted to the difference..for example, i don't believe Inuit need to eat vitamin C....might be wrong tho...



I believe that caribou or something like contain appreciable amounts of vitamin C and the inuit get it there. I doubt they dont need vitamin C.

I was curious, so i did a little research:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/010119.html

Turns out there is a tiny amount of Vit C in raw animal products...so eat up your lamb brains! 17mg/100g!!
User avatar
Dave Noisy
Active Member
 
Posts: 6767
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 8:04 pm
Location: Victoria, BC
Top

Postby veganmonk » Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:51 pm

[quote="Wobbly Lifter"][quote="veganmonk"]
Why are you vegan again? :shock:


Maybe becuase I think killing things because they taste good is wrong :roll:



Are you referring to cooked/flavoured meat? I am referring to raw, bloody, natural flesh from an animal, as any other omnivore/carnivore would eat. I believe we would find it quite disgusting.

True, humans did create tools and fire and modified it, but to go back to the topic and discuss whether or not we are designed by nature to eat meat, it would seem rather not, as not only do we lack the physical ability (digestive system along with predatory attributes), but we also do not find the smell/taste/thought of bloody flesh from an animal appealing. At least most human beings do not I'm certain.

On top of this, are closest species (bonobos/chimps) only consume 3% max of their diet in animal based foods from small vertibrae or smaller mammals, and the next closest are herbivores (gorillas). Due to the fact that our intestines are the longest, we are not meant to digest meat, and it causes are bodies harm. This all points to us being natural herbivores.
User avatar
veganmonk
Active Member
 
Posts: 316
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:41 pm
Location: BC, Canada
Top

Postby Wobbly Lifter » Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:51 pm

[quote="veganmonk"]
Are you referring to cooked/flavoured meat? I am referring to raw, bloody, natural flesh from an animal, as any other omnivore/carnivore would eat. I believe we would find it quite disgusting.

True, humans did create tools and fire and modified it, but to go back to the topic and discuss whether or not we are designed by nature to eat meat, it would seem rather not, as not only do we lack the physical ability (digestive system along with predatory attributes), but we also do not find the smell/taste/thought of bloody flesh from an animal appealing. At least most human beings do not I'm certain.

On top of this, are closest species (bonobos/chimps) only consume 3% max of their diet in animal based foods from small vertibrae or smaller mammals, and the next closest are herbivores (gorillas). Due to the fact that our intestines are the longest, we are not meant to digest meat, and it causes are bodies harm. This all points to us being natural herbivores.


I guess my main objection is to the concept we were 'designed'. I don't think that's the right term, I'd say we evoloved. You claim we weren't meant to eat meat, I don't think we are 'meant' to do anything. Who designed us? Who means for us to be herbivores? Nature? God? I don't think nature designs anything or means for people to do anything. I don't beleive in god either so that's out. But even if we are designed a certian way, wouldn't we be designed to make tools and fire, what you claim are the only things that allow us to eat meat. Why isn't that part of our design?

The main problem, in my view, is that you're trying to fit nature to your views, when it should be the other way around. The vast majority of humans eat and gain energy and nutrition from meat. I don't see how it's possible to deny that (most) humans are omnivores, given what the word means;
[quote=" Britannica"]Animal that eats both plant and animal matter.


Note: As I said I've ate raw meat, and just to let you know.....
it tasted good! :twisted:
Better Living Through Chemistry
User avatar
Wobbly Lifter
Active Member
 
Posts: 1672
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 6:37 am
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Top

Postby VeganPower » Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:24 am

[quote="veganmonk"]And I'd also have to say it requires more intelligence and brain power to be compassionate to animals, and also be aware of the damage to our health and planet as a result of killing animals.


You would compare an individual's intelligence to his or her diet? that's a little extreme.

But I do agree with the fact that the meat industry is notorious for environmental health. And yes, factory farmed meat is bad for your health.

That doesn't mean all meat is unhealthy and all sources of meat are linked to environmental destruction.
grind the enemy
User avatar
VeganPower
Member
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:53 pm
Location: edmonton, alberta, canada
Top

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

cron