Frugivore / omnivore / carnivore

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Frugivore / omnivore / carnivore

Postby grant » Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:54 am

Opinions are divided amongst all of the dietary 'experts'. So what does everyone on here think we 'are' and why?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEFZx7VWMJs

"Truth has to be repeated constantly, because Error also is being preached all the time, and not just by a few, but by the multitude. In the Press and Encyclopaedias, in Schools and Universities, everywhere Error holds sway, feeling happy and comfortable in the knowledge of having Majority on its side."----Goethe
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Postby fredrikw » Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:04 pm

are? aren't we able to chose?
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?

Postby grant » Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:11 pm

We have a 'design', no?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEFZx7VWMJs

"Truth has to be repeated constantly, because Error also is being preached all the time, and not just by a few, but by the multitude. In the Press and Encyclopaedias, in Schools and Universities, everywhere Error holds sway, feeling happy and comfortable in the knowledge of having Majority on its side."----Goethe
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Postby fredrikw » Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:14 pm

design? as in someone has designed us to work in a specific way? then I have to say no, I'm a strong believer of evolution.
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Postby JP » Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:19 pm

i guess thats why he said design in quote marks - evolutionary design could be used as a term as well.

but looking around the varied dietary habits which have allowed humans to thrive, i think its obvious we are omnivores and have been so for millions of years.
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Postby fredrikw » Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:25 pm

yeah, then I agree. it's just that the term 'design' in this context has gotten a quite creationist meaning nowadays, talking about 'design' when it comes to stuff that has to do with evolution you immediately place yourself in the religious corner...
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Postby grant » Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:33 pm

"design? as in someone has designed us to work in a specific way? then I have to say no, I'm a strong believer of evolution."

Lions have a particular diet that they function best on due to their inherant or acquired 'design' and tend to stick to it but if evolution is true then they 'evolved' from something else, no? All species on this planet seem to be sticking quite rigidly to a particular eating habit, so i just thought that we must have one too based upon some sort of 'design' that's all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEFZx7VWMJs

"Truth has to be repeated constantly, because Error also is being preached all the time, and not just by a few, but by the multitude. In the Press and Encyclopaedias, in Schools and Universities, everywhere Error holds sway, feeling happy and comfortable in the knowledge of having Majority on its side."----Goethe
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Postby grant » Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:47 pm

"i think its obvious we are omnivores and have been so for millions of years."

We have been 'omnivorous' in our dietary 'choices' for quite some time but has that changed what we 'are' any?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEFZx7VWMJs

"Truth has to be repeated constantly, because Error also is being preached all the time, and not just by a few, but by the multitude. In the Press and Encyclopaedias, in Schools and Universities, everywhere Error holds sway, feeling happy and comfortable in the knowledge of having Majority on its side."----Goethe
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Re: ?

Postby JP » Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:08 pm

[quote="grant"] We have been 'omnivorous' in our dietary 'choices' for quite some time but has that changed what we 'are' any?


other way around i think: humanoids were omnivorous before it became a choice and only now we are in a situation where we can let our ethics and politics form our dietary culture, rather than it being dictated by our environmental constraints.

But one things is for sure: meat and animal products have played much smaller role in our evolution than many would like us to believe. Even us avoiding to fall to pray to predators may have had much larger role in our evolution.

This book is very interesting about the subject:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/081333 ... 35?ie=UTF8
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Re: ?

Postby xrodolfox » Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:36 pm

[quote="JP"][quote="grant"] We have been 'omnivorous' in our dietary 'choices' for quite some time but has that changed what we 'are' any?


other way around i think: humanoids were omnivorous before it became a choice and only now we are in a situation where we can let our ethics and politics form our dietary culture, rather than it being dictated by our environmental constraints.


Exactly.

I don't think it really matters what we are "designed" to eat, whether through evolution or "creation". We now have the ability to thrive (as individuals) by making one out of a veriety of choices. For example, I think that it is completely possible to thrive on either a diet that supports lots of killing, or one that avoids killing completely. What is more important than what we were "designed" to eat is what kind of ethical and moral choices we make while we are alive.

I think that what we are "designed" to consume is so unclear that it just doesn't matter as much as what we "ought" to consume now that we have a choice. A dilema exists with choice, and we have that choice.

Asking, "what are we designed to eat" smells of a red herring at best. A better, more useful question is, "what do we eat to thrive?" or "what diet is mose convenient and ethical?"

I'm sure the OP will spur some interesting discussion. I just think that asking the question in the first place is giving validity to an argumentative thread that is pointless and counter productive to what's most important: making ethical choices in a world where it is easy to thrive.

The choice is in the hands of the individual and culture; not in the hands of some distant "creator" or in the annals of the newest ever changing scientific literature.
"The worker has the right to leave his boss, but can she do it? And if she does quit him, is it in order to lead a free life; where she will have no master but herself? No, she leaves to sell herself to another employer. She's driven by the same hunger. Thus the worker's liberty is only a theoretical freedom, lacking any means of realization; an utter falsehood."
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Postby chloe » Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:42 pm

yeah genau JP, thats one of my debate points on the subject of veganism
that we have the intelligence and the know how to choose an ethical minimum damage way of existing.so even if we did evolve in one way we can now rise above our biology with our smarts and be healthy in an alternative fashion.
so yeahh
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Postby Fruitbat » Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:22 pm

i very much support wot JP says too - though I couldnt have worded it as well :oops:
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Postby Dave Noisy » Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:44 pm

On my blog is a 'comparative anatomy' between carni's, omni's and herbi's:

http://cycling.thenoisies.com/2005/04/c ... rition.asp

Of course it's a little biased, but might add something to the convo here. Nothing worse than tag-along carni's. =)
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Postby veganmike » Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:27 pm

JP is of course correct to point out that Homo Sapiens is an omnivorous species, although I'd disagree with him on the importance of animal foods in our evolution. It has definately varied across the globe and throughout time, but I don't really see how are species could have survived without easily accessible and nutrient-dense animal foods.
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Postby tofuPUNK » Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:32 pm

Francis Morre Lappe explains in her book "Diet for a Small Planet" that humans are predisposed to be mainly herbavores, based on anotomical traits such as the way are teeth, fingers and fingernails, and digestive systems are set up. Once man began using tools and was able to cook and kill animals as food, then I believe the dietary choices of humans began to change. However, not enough time has elapsed in history to allow the human body to evolve to fit this new diet. One question that I still have is, that they say the appendix was used at one time to digest raw meat which might throw a wrench in Lappes theory. (--mental note to self to re-read the book).

As far as evolution and creation, I can sum up in three words:

Ontogony recapitulates phylogeny."
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