Meat propaganda

[Trytter]

Anyone have any links to sites that are really anti vegan/vegetarian? Both for health purposes and in muscle building purposes..
I realize the irony in asking this on a vegan board but I like reading about subjects from all angles possible, makes life more interesting you know...
And sometimes it´s just good for a laugh if you´re bored ...

[funfetus]

I came across this the other day:

http://www.testosterone.net/html/body_143soy.html

Sounds like a pretty dire opinion. What do you think?

[Trytter]

Lol, yeah it´s not the first time i hear of the diabolical soybean and it´s crusade against testosterone.
But seriously are there any real life substance to this Soy/estrogen debate?? I mean, the only veggie i´ve seen that could fit the "gyno" theory also had a huuuuuuuuge gut and atleast three chins so i´d suspect the chips and peanut butter would be a more probable reason why his chest was so saggy ...

[JP]

yes, i've argued with some anti-soya crusaders on few occasions about this. Funnily enough soya seems by many experts to act as an anti-oestrogen agent, which would be the EXACT opposite to what that article is on about.

This is what i copied from one of the discussions:

1. men have very few estrogen receptor's to begin with (10 lbs of excess
body fat and your body would probably produce enough to fill these)
2. phytoestrogens bind to estrogen receptor's yet are 1/500th the
potency so they may actually inhibit estrogen
3. soy isoflavones are in very low concentration in soy milk. as long as
you avoid isoflavone pills I wouldn't worry about it.
4. There's nothing magical about meat wrt testosterone, it is likely due
to the high zinc content; so eat your zinc!

What the number 2. is basically saying is that the phytoestrogens in soy are so weak that in effect, because they would be binding the receptors, it would work as an anti-oestrogen agent.

Go figure. I don't care, i'm making good gains so the theory can say what it wants, lol!

[Pete]

I treat soya like any other food. It's not the devil the antis say, nor it is the miracle the pro-soya people claim. It's just another food, high in protein, for sure, but no better or worse than any other food stuff. It wont feminise you, nor will it cure cancer, in my view. If you need some protein & you like it, then have some as it's good for that, if you don't like it then go for some other high protein food instead.

[Mary]

If you check out on our website we have an article that may be of some use to you. It looks at the alleged dangers of soya, and compares the risks of phytoestrogens from plants with the dangers of mammalian oestrogens from milk and meat. The article is mainly about proprietory baby milks, but the info is still relevant.

[Mary]

It would make it easier for people to check out our website if I gave you the address! Oops.

www.realfood.org.uk