Veganism & drugs

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Drugs?

Postby Oak » Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Hmmmm?

What are we calling drugs?

All foods that i can think of contain something which the body has to detoxify. Whether it is a piece of fruit or halve a Kg of raspberry flavoured smack. :lol:

The body has it's own detoxification systems and so as long as you can handle it without it effecting the efficiency of any of your other bodily systems then i guess it's called moderation.

Illegal drugs tend to be quite toxic. So i would avoid them anyway. I think that in terms of the mind anyway we have a lot of misconceptions to wade through without making it worse for ourselves by taking things which cloud our minds.
I think that the purchase of illegal drugs funds nasty people who tend to do nasty things. :evil: So i would urge people not to buy them.
I think that like alchohol. Risk taking should be a personal choice and so drugs should be legal. But like alchohol where you are not allowed to drink and drive there should be some pretty clever regulations to monitor it's effect on individuals other than the risk taker.

What about all the proteins and supplements that people take? I have studied nutrition a fair bit and still don't really understand it all.
I think a healthy diet seems to accomodate just about anything. Anything else is just a science of putting your body though an environment that it normally wouldn't be able to navigate on it's own.
Climbing above 7000metres for example. Sheer madness. :lol:

I don't drink but don't mind other people drinking alchohol as long as they are not hurting anyone else.
Smoking i am suspicious of, i think that it probably does harm other people.
I have never taken supplement or anything and seem OK without them. I think? :?

What exercises are involved in the different levels of veganism? Can i have the breakdown all the way to level 10 so that i can start training? :D
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Postby nanoking » Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:11 pm

I've been meaning to bring this up for awhile. There seems to be a conflict between the martyr/ascetic vegans who are trying to scale down and shrink into nothingness and the growth oriented/happy vegans who are trying to expand their lives and goodwill off to infinity.

I'm in favor of the latter type of veganism, if you couldn't tell. ;)

I'll be stopping by the trophy shop on my way home from work so I'll need a head count on the number of straight edge plaques to pick up.


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Postby JO » Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:44 pm

NanoKing,

Now you've done it. There's nothing wrong with simplifying what one ingests. Doing so need not be called martyrdom or asceticism. Or nothingness. Eating and drinking is such a small part of one's existence.

Me, I look forward to the day when serious vegan couture overtakes what seems mostly to be utilitarian/boilerplate attire. Although, of course, nothing beats a good mantle of muscle.

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Postby nanoking » Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:55 pm

I haven't learned how to excrete and self-assemble calcium carbonate yet, but when I do I'll have an enviable mantle.

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Another question. In Minor Threat's song, "Out of Step", he states that he doesn't copulate. Is that a requirement of straight edgedness? I'm just asking what with Valentine's Day tomorrow and all that.

Ahh, sheee, push it...

http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/02/13 ... index.html

:P

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Oh god, I'm gonna hurt myself with google image search one of these days, ROFLMAO.

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Postby Pete » Sat Feb 14, 2004 4:23 pm

Dragging things a wee bit more into reality (nice snail pic NK, I never knew where a snails anus was until now :lol: ).
How do straight edgers stand on supplements, does the XXX philosophy cover sports enhancing supplements like creatine etc (they don't have caffeine I know). I'm not an edger by any means (ciggies I can do without, no drink fine, narcotics not vital, but sex will let me down every time :lol: ). I'm just having a bit of trouble pinning down exactly where they draw the line. So, any knowledgable person want to set me straight :roll: (sorry about that one). I need to know as the odd edger contacts me at VBB & I don't want to offend by offering them advance that goes against their philosophy.
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Postby JP » Sat Feb 14, 2004 6:09 pm

pete, straight edgers come in all shapes and sizes. While some might be more sceptical towards using creatine, i'd think 99% don't care.

Also, i would think most straight edgers are ok with coffee, tea and stuff which has caffeine - hey at least i'm not going to stop eating mocca icecream :)

The sex thing is like nanoking said in a minor threat song, some take it literally, most don't. It's all about addictions which you can lose control over.

I went edge at the age of 17 after being a bit of an teenie alcoholic, so i'm glad that i took the plunge.
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Postby JO » Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:35 pm

I imagine "straight edge" is a principled rejecton of anything produced or promoted by big business -- legal or "illegal" -- that might impair clear thought or action ... liquour, drugs, the mass media, "social norms", etc.

I personally am not the purist/puritanical "body's a temple" type, but rather first the type that avoids substances with abuse potential (like JP) and second, more recently, the type that goes along with the above interpretation of "straight edge".

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Postby dudeimhuge » Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:56 pm

[quote="Pete"]Dragging things a wee bit more into reality (nice snail pic NK, I never knew where a snails anus was until now :lol: ).
How do straight edgers stand on supplements, does the XXX philosophy cover sports enhancing supplements like creatine etc (they don't have caffeine I know). I'm not an edger by any means (ciggies I can do without, no drink fine, narcotics not vital, but sex will let me down every time :lol: ). I'm just having a bit of trouble pinning down exactly where they draw the line. So, any knowledgable person want to set me straight :roll: (sorry about that one). I need to know as the odd edger contacts me at VBB & I don't want to offend by offering them advance that goes against their philosophy.


I don't think anyone that is sXe would have a problem with supplements...unless they are retarded. :) The sex thing, at least how i (i'm sXe) and most of the kids around here view it, is no promiscuous sex.
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Postby H » Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:56 pm

Going back to the original post...smoking isn't actually considered vegan because they test cigarettes on dogs (I think there is an article on www.animalaid.org.uk ). I would imagine they also test the effects of alcohol and drugs on animals too but I don't know about them. I don't drink either as my body doesn't like it.

I was wondering if the definition of vegan includes people who take medicinal drugs? I find this one very tricky. I try my hardest not to take anything. I would never take a painkiller for a headache or anything like that, but sometimes you get an illness that needs to be treated or it's going to get a lot worse. I got appendicitis and my choice was have the nasty animal tested drugs or die! I feel really guilty about taking medicines though and feel like a fraud saying I'm vegan if I do. What does everyone else think about medicines?
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Postby Pete » Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:22 pm

They also test water, foods & even air on animals!
I took my first painkiller in 18 years when I broke my toe, I managed 2 broken ribs previously without, but the toe was bad wish I hadn't in retrospect, but at the time...
Suppose we can all only do what we can (& I'm a wuss when it comes to pain :lol: )
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Postby Shinobi » Tue Feb 17, 2004 2:04 am

I don't really see drugs as inherintly anti-vegan. I used to know a lot of vegans that smoked, were into pot, getting pissed ect. For me, it's either my health or short term pleasure. I take health, I don't want any obstacles to muscle building. Weed is a lot of fun to use, but the drawback is that being straight becomes boring.

I used to smoke, use weed and drink. I still have dreams in which I smoke and in my dream I think to myself "oh no, I have to quit smoking all over again!" then I wake up and I'm releived that it was just a dream.

Now I generally think that if you want to hurt your body, go ahead, I'll see you in hospital. But the issue can get more complex by drug use affecting others and society as a whole. Smoking harms others, and the smell is rude and offensive. It puts a strain on the health care system by treating thousands of cases that could be avoided. I guess smoking is selfish becuase someone is going to have to look after your sick ass when your 50. The same goes for alcohol. If your radically mided you could also argue that these drugs help keep society down and controlled.

So, I don't drink either, as I said it lowers testosterone levels raises estrogens and slows down fat metabolism to a crawl. I dont consider myself straight edge, I don't take any moral high ground by being tee-total. I just want my test and my light speed metabolism. Some people (most) arn't interested in being unltra fit. If that's your bag go ahead and have a drink now and then. For a bodybuilder, it depends on hard hardcore you want to be. Because if you want to be fit, your lifestyle is a part of the total makeup. What you do outside the gym is going to affect how well you perfrom inside. Well, it appears I've just rambled so I'd better wrap this up now.
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drug usage

Postby ctchrinthry » Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:38 am

Hm. I don't see drinking as anti-vegan. People sometimes seem surprised when i take a beer, but i tell tham, "Do you think there's meat in beer?"

I don't drink much nowadays, though, for diet reasons. Can't think of a better way to keep a beer belly on than to keep drinking beer. I have a little wine in the fridge but it's aging well in there.

I don't smoke at all. I think it's just plain nasty.

I rarely take any medicaion. No painkillers even when i broke my foot! ( 3 metatarsals crunched ). I did get anesthetized when my ACL got put back together, and, man, did i ever get sick afterward. I don't do antibacterial anything, i think it's made me healthier. I never get colds or anything like that.

I have done some drugs in the past. Recently, i've been given pot twice in the past year at a party and had some, then regretted it later. I was just "slow" the whole next day, and my lungs hurt. It's not worth it for me, even if it did make the simpsons way funnier than usual.


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Postby JO » Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:10 pm

[quote="Shinobi"] It puts a strain on the health care system by treating thousands of cases that could be avoided. I guess smoking is selfish becuase someone is going to have to look after your sick ass when your 50.


Shinobi, that statement is a little bit insensitive. The effects of smoking are quite insidious, gradually removing health so one can't even remember the contrast of youthful health versus being home-bound because one can't even breathe enough to move. The people suffering and dying now never foresaw that misery. The health system is overburdened now with victims of lung disease not because people are being selfish now, but because smoking was popular (and its risks less known) in the past.

As an aside from a former smoker, if the warnings on cigarette packages included the potential damage to discs and spine, I might not have been so cavalier thinking oh I can quit anytime my lungs will regenerate themselves miraculously. While my lungs did regenerate themselves miraculously, my oxygen-starved discs did not. So I will never be a powerlifting champion (but at least I can work around that).

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Postby H » Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:23 pm

"They also test water, foods & even air on animals! "

Yes but those are all pretty essential! We can, to a certain extent, live without certain medicinal drugs and can certainly live without cigarettes and recreational drugs.

I think vegans do have a responsibility to keep themselves healthy as all these drugs and operations for heart disease, transplants etc. involve hideous animal experiments.

What does 'straight edge' mean by the way? I've never heard that before.
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Postby ihall » Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:50 pm

Personally I find that Veganism and a Drug Free lifestyle go hand in hand but I don't think that one is less a Vegan for using drugs or alcohol. Just my two cents.
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