Vegan dog argument

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Vegan dog argument

Postby Spam » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:36 pm

HI all,

First off, I did look to see if I could find a thread that covered my question and didn't find what I was looking for. I went as far back as Malcolm's Billy's awesome posts and her success with a vegan diet for Malcolm. If there is a thread that already covers this, please point me to it! I also did an internet search, and while my scientific background makes me skeptical of what is out there on the net, I don't really know how to determine if the info I found is based in fact or opinion.

It's kind of stupid but I got involved in a FB discussion regarding a raw diet for dogs. The original poster claimed that dogs are obligate carnivores and I started that they are not, but cats are......and that dogs can be healthy and happy on a veg diet (I didn't even claim vegan diet) Of course, I got the normal reaction (ie. cut and paste of the classifaction of dogs as carnivora, a dog expert "groomer" who talked a bit about teeth and intestines but based his argument IN CAPS around an anecdote of an unhealthy vegan dog). They didn't really matter to me, but the original poster did ask if I had any research to back up my claim, and frankly I don't :( Her post mattered to me since I see that she is really interested, and I see the potential to influence her. I don't want to respond with anecdotal evidence (stories of happy, healthy dogs). I would like actual evidence (if it exists) that dogs are omnivores and can live healthy lives on a plant based diet. My internet search keeps telling me that dogs are more carnivorous than omnivorous.

Does anyone have good links (based in science/research) or even better....an argument already constructed that I could borrow?
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Re: Vegan dog argument

Postby Konstantin » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:26 pm

This isn't evidence, but we had a dog behaviourist visit us a few years ago, one who spent a lot of time with wolves. She said it was common for lower ranking dogs to get to eat the stomach contents of killed animals, and as they would be herbivores, it was partly digested plants.

I think on a basic level it's the same as for humans - we can eat both but in the end we need certain nutrients. We can get those nutrients from plants.
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Re: Vegan dog argument

Postby Spam » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:47 pm

Thank you, Haisuli and Konstantin. This info is very helpful!
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Re: Vegan dog argument

Postby haisuli » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:50 pm

You're welcome!

If you find more researches etc. please share those here :wink: I think that there aren't many...

Couple months ago I opened my mouth in wrong place and it turned to same kind of argumentation that you descripted. It's weird how people reacts when just talking theory and possibility about vegan diet with dog. They didn't even have any real arguments against mine. I tried to explain things about dogs' essential amino acids and fact that they can be found also from veggie food, but they just repeated things like "dogs are created to carnivores" and "my friend once saw veggie dog and it looked unhealthy".

We have tried some veggie dog foods, feels like AMI works best with our dog. But we have tested only few and dog had weird inflammation disease before trying veggiefoods. Strong antibiotics may have affect to digestion and it's hard to say if some food works better/worse than other or is stomach just recovering from antibiotics.
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Re: Vegan dog argument

Postby JohnBarleycorn » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:31 pm

Years back, I knew some farmers who had Springer Spaniels. They bred them, and sold the puppies, but the parents were well loved family pets. They has a litter every year, for a few years, as I remember. The owners were vegetarian, and the dogs were strictly vegetarian too.

All the puppies were fantastic little dogs. Super healthy and full of energy. The parents had both won shows in their younger days. They were as healthy and well as any dogs I have ever seen. Interestingly, they didn't seem to age as badly as many Springers. A vegetarian diet really worked well for them.
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Re: Vegan dog argument

Postby Spam » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:35 pm

Well, it didn't go well, but I can't really say that I expected any differently. For saying that dogs are omnivores and can lead happy, healthy lives on a vegan diet, I was told I was sick, ignorant, abusive, stupid and an idiot in various post by one guy. The original poster never responded to the links, so I don't think she even read them. She asked that we stop arguing, and stated that when she was a self rightious vegan 25 years ago, she imposed her diet on her dog and within 2 months it's blood work was way off. So I guess you can add her implication that I am also self rightious to the list of my wonderful qualities..haha. Also, that she has an animal science degree (implied she knows better than me). I respected her wishes and didn't say anymore.
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Re: Vegan dog argument

Postby haisuli » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:16 pm

I can imagine that. I've noticed some same elements also when speaking about children's diet things. Explanations won't be heard.

And usually those people are talking about natural food that dogs would catch in forests. Great argument, useless to say that dogs can't be count to wild animals after domestication and they are use to flexible diet because they shared same food with humans.
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Re: Vegan dog argument

Postby Hiking Fox » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:31 am

Also tell them that many sheepdogs are fed a vegetarian diet from puppies so as not to give them a taste for meat that could lead them to attack sheep. Given the active lifestyle of sheepdogs, I'd say it gives them all the nutrition they need.
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