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Cutting the fat phase (and post-workout questions..)

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:08 pm
by i live in omaha
i broke the 200lb barrier a while ago and am at a cool 207 lbs right now. Unfortunately my bodyfat percentage is in the mid-high teens now and it's about time to start shaving that fat off.

I have nutrition, and my training program down except for what should i do post-workout (weights, that is)?

I have two schools of though about what to do after i work the weights, but i'm not sure which one i should do.

1. After about an hour of weight training i should consume my post-workout shake consisting of simple sugars and easilly digestible proteins. I say this because my "window of opportunity" is open for a brief period after weight-training and my body needs that shake asap. I can always come back to the gym later and do 30 minutes of cardio then.
OR
2. After about an hour of weight training i should hop on the cross trainer and do about 30 minutes of 60-70% cardio before consuming my post-workout shake. I say this because i am already warmed up and my body muscles are all primed and ready for some light fat-burning cardio. Then after the cardio i consume my shake.

Which one makes more sense if my goal is to shave off fat and retain as much muscle as possible?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:42 pm
by JP
omaha, fantastic work mate! How much is that in gains? I seem to remember you were a wee lad when you first posted here :D Perhaps my memory doesn't serve me very well (getting old here...)

Anyways, don't have anything wise to contribute (like i knew something about losing fat, HA!), but wanted to congratulate on the gains.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:34 pm
by sensless
I would perform the cardio immediately after the weight training. Your body sugar levels should be low at that point forcing your body to use fat as an energy source. I think, aka I don't know for sure, that your window of opportunity won't be closed if you consume the drink/meal after your 30 minutes of cardio.

I don't do much for cutting weight or fat loss, but Muscle Militia I imagine can give you some quality advice.

Regards,

John Jr.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:30 am
by Heyutang
I'd think don't do cardio only after your workout. The key to fat loss is REGULAR and LOW INTENSITY cardio work. Better one hour each day, and certainly no progressive intensity- people always like running faster as they gey better at it. If you want to do it after your workout, I'd second what sensless said. Be sure however to have a bottle of water with you. And I'd increase the time: 30 mins is not much imo. But then you have the closed window problem. Oh well. Maybe shorter cardio on lifting days and longer on no lifting days?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:39 pm
by sensless
When I studied personal training it was always recommended to do low intensity or mid-intensity work to lose fat, but then in application I don't think the theory holds up too well. When I played soccer or sprinted in track I was able to not only lose fat faster, but it was easier to do. Those were not low-intensity aerobic workouts at all. Doing exercise for cardiovascular reasons is different from doing it for fat burning, I think sometimes that gets a bit muddled. As always, try a method for about 3 months and see how well it works for you. Over the course of a year that gives you a chance to try 4 different methods and then you will be able to easily determine what works best for your body.

-Jr.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:53 am
by VeganEssentials
[quote="sensless"]When I played soccer or sprinted in track I was able to not only lose fat faster, but it was easier to do. Those were not low-intensity aerobic workouts at all.


This equates a lot with the comparison between distance runners and sprinters - compare the physiques of both, and you'll find that sprinters on the average are leaner and more muscular, even though they're doing a fraction of the running that a marathon enthusaist does. Short bursts of high intensity aerobic/anaerobic activity have definitely shown to be exceptional tools for fat loss (such as the sprint 30 seconds, walk 30 seconds and repeat style cardio workout) and I used to get better results from that than when I'd run 5 miles at night. Distance running ate away the muscle I was working to build, whereas 20 minutes on a stationary bike of alternating high intensity/low intensity bursts didn't hinder my lifting at all and still gave results. It is just like lifting - everyone will respond differently, so try 'em both and see what happens!

Ryan

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:04 am
by Heyutang
Biochemistry and sports physiology today still dictate the low intensity work outs for fat loss. One reason is that during sprints there is no time for the cells to make use of the abundancy of fats around them for the needed energy production. Instead, they will work anaerobically (fat burn requires a LOT of oxygen, see the chemical formula for that) and use creatine (no oxygen required in this formula).
So if you believe science, low intensity is still the way to go.
However, I agree with the two guys above me here: try and find out what works best for you.
I used to be what Ryan calls a marathon enthusiast, and I was very lean at that time. Sure, if you do a lot of distance running your body will try to get rid of all extra weight, and you will also get more long type fibers in your muscle instead of short fibres. But I think that wouldn't be too significant if you only do it a coupla times per week, as opposed to very long runs almost every day.
Sprinters may be lean because of their diets and lots of muscles which also help to burn fat.
Don't forget your diet! Eat a little less than you normally would.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:42 pm
by i live in omaha
Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm thinking i'm going to try a few different things. I've tried really low intensity stuff for a while and that didn't work too well. While it helped me retain muscle, it didn't seem to make me lose any fat.

I did semi-high intensity workout (70%, or about 140-150bpm) for a few weeks and that seemed to have me lose the most fat, but i also lost the most muscle that way as well.

Rightnow i'm looking for the perfect medium. I'm unlucky in that my genetics make me want to gain lots of fat, so i really need to be careful and watch my nutrition like a hawk.

I'll let you guys know how it goes in a couple of weeks.