2004 Mr. Olympia

Lifting weights whether for bodybuilding, toning, or just for general fitness.

Moderators: hardcore iv, fredrikw, JP, stateofflux, bronco

Postby VeganEssentials » Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:21 pm

Just a quick story I pulled from another board I frequent that I thought would be appropriate for this thread. This isn't from me, but someone else who wanted to share their information when the topic turned to the olympics and weightlifting:

"I have a dear friend who I enjoy spending time with. We talk a lot, and this is what I’ve learned.

He was on the Olympic “team” and the All-Army team. When he was on the Olympic team, every one was exposed to every type of Steroid. EVERY TYPE. Their blood chemistry was monitored closely, and the results were monitored even closer. In this manner, every athlete was on a unique combination of drugs. The right combination that worked with their strengths, weaknesses and specific body type.

He talked about how much they would train, how much they would do cardio, and how much they would lift. He said that no human being should ever be able to do that much. That it was “impossible”, but they trained like that all day, 6 days a week. He said he felt like a machine, like some how his body was more than human. He’d train all day long, and still be able to set PR’s in the weight room… all with out eating any solid food on some days.

The steroid use was open, and discussed constantly, to make sure each athlete was on the right program. The high point of his experience was meeting one kid, the one kid who didn’t want to use steroids. He was also the only one who didn’t drink at night. He was also one of the few who never placed. His other “most memorable moment” was training with the Russian team, and especially one "Mr K". He said they were the most terrifying athletes he’s ever seen, each a gorilla with the tell-tale signs of HGH abuse. They were training even harder than the American team, and would embarrass them in practice. They were also open about drug use, and compared drug schemes, and He found out that they were using drugs that the Americans deemed unsafe.

For competition, nobody stopped using steroids. Instead, they had a source at the testing center for the upcoming competition. They would find which drugs were being tested for, because the agencies would randomly select people and drugs to test for. With this information, they could find:
1). What drugs were being tested for.
2). What masking agents were being tested for.
With this info, the team would eliminate athletes, and only enter the kids who were on unique, untested combos, or on tested chemicals who’s masking agents were not tested for. Then, they would submit a roster of “drug free” athletes, with out fear of being caught.

(When you hear so-and-so won't be competing due to a car-accident or ham-string pull, it just means the team found that the drug testing agency is testing for one of the main drugs he was on)

The US team used this technique for many decades, including the 2000 Olympics. They are using this technqiue for the 2004 olympics.

My friend quit because he knew he would never place, knew he was too old, and was starting to show the physical symptoms of HGH use. He went back to the all-army team, and then retired completely from his sport.

When I talk about drug testing and weight lifting he says “You’re fooling your self if you think they’re drug free”. The US is the “good country” but we dope worse than some of the other countries we accuse of being “bad countries”. Have you ever seen a normal woman with a neck wider than her entire head? Have you ever seen a woman with abs bigger than a large mans bicept? Have you ever seen a woman with 3-4% body fat and more muscular thighs than most college football players? If you think they’re drug free, you’re fooling your self. If the US and a “non-marketable athletic team” openly have access to a wide array of wonder-drugs and have a great doping system, what do you think Russia, China, Hungry and Iran are doing?

I always ask the final question, and this is his normal response:

“You can’t bring down the drug use, because you’d bring down professional athletics. People don’t want to know their entire super-bowl team is on some wonder-product. They don’t want to know their gold medallists “cheated”. People want to believe in their home town, their own nation, and some concept of victory, hard work, and success. It’s all a big joke. One big drug inflated joke. When it crashes, the whole sports world will crash with it.”

Overall, my friend is very angry with himself, for using drugs, for disfiguring himself, and for being part of the whole system. He complains about being caught up in the moment of being a “world class athlete”, and doing anything to be the best. Today, he refused to lift weights, or to do any non-military physical training. He still has a better body than most active Americans. Now we just sit out side on Sunday nights, drink a beer, and talk about life. He seems to enjoy it much more. "


Just an interesting bit to toss in here!

Ryan
User avatar
VeganEssentials
Active Member
 
Posts: 1359
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 1:09 am
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Postby loreinski » Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:35 pm

Without a doubt half if not all body builders who take steroids for size and mass, once off them they become string beans. That's a fact. Some maintain natural muscle, other don't. I knew guys who took them, and yes, the literally got big overnight - with moderate weight training. But once off them, they didn't look too good. I remember a profile of Gridiron player who took roids, and developed brain tumours. When he was on them,he was big, off them and sick; you could hardly recognise him

Steroid use in body building is pathetic, but body building is a small sport, in fact its insignificant tio the industries behind it - whey powder, creatine, estrogens blockers etc etc.

What is funny about this thread, is why would VEGANS (presumable drug free) give credo to Mr Olympia, where all competitors eat meat, slag of vegetarian's and take drugs. That amazes me, that really does.
loreinski
Member
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:46 am

Postby J » Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:41 pm

That's interesting Ryan.
But I don't know if its necessary to confuse things like this. Obviously testing isn't perfect but except for some bodybuilding organizations and baseball they at least try to test. Baseball and pro bodybuilding don't test and they're both a joke.

And Arnold made a comback after steriods were illegal and I was just using him as an example anyway.

Mary
A few other things Arnold did:
He told some innocent guy (who was not his competition) that the way to get like him was to eat 30 spoonfuls of ground up walnut shells a day. But just start with one spoon and add a spoon everyday. The poor guy supposedly got to 17 before it just about killed him.

In an interview he talked about how he grabbed a girl at a party and took part in gangbanging her. (Which isn't necessarily bad unless you're a republican governor.)

Early in his bodybuilding career he was partially supported by gay guys who liked to hang with him.

Something like 10 women came forth with groping allegations against him when he ran for governor.

Oh, and last night at the RNC he talked about how great Nixon was in his speech.
J
Active Member
 
Posts: 2761
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: West Virginia

Postby loreinski » Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:10 am

[/quote]
He told some innocent guy (who was not his competition) that the way to get like him was to eat 30 spoonfuls of ground up walnut shells a day. But just start with one spoon and add a spoon everyday. The poor guy supposedly got to 17 before it just about killed him. [/quote]

BB's say the most ridicules stuff, they hate to admit that it was chemicals that produce bulk. Some people are genetically gifted, but that's rare.

Arnie had a great build though.

On the set of Predator he got food poisoning, and didn't eat (apparently), lost a lot of weight, but miraculously (?) maintained his muscle. In some shots you can see his rib cage sticking out.
loreinski
Member
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:46 am

Postby VeganEssentials » Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:33 am

[quote="emphryio"] That's interesting Ryan.
But I don't know if its necessary to confuse things like this. Obviously testing isn't perfect but except for some bodybuilding organizations and baseball they at least try to test. Baseball and pro bodybuilding don't test and they're both a joke.


But, even in "tested" sports, this isn't to say that testing is for every participant (they will often take a cross section of, say, 1 of every 5 or 10 athletes to test), that it is for every drug which could enhance performance, nor is it necessarily done in a way that can't easily be avoided for coming up positive. For example, olympic sprinter Ben Johnson was nabbed for nandrolone use, but apparently this was because his "physician" was supposed to have been administering winstrol, a steroid which clears the system quickly. Nandrolone, on the other hand, lasts far longer (up to a year, if I'm not mistaken), and the mix-up caused him to be detected. Had he been using only winstrol, he may well have had all drugs clear his system in time for testing and been able to easily pass and compete without any difficulties. This doesn't mean that they were necessarily "lucky" with catching him, but that the testing system is quite faulty for trying to be accurate and therefore is just as much to blame as people who know how to easily outwit the tests to begin with. If we're going to say that we'll test for drugs, test EVERYONE, RANDOMLY, and for ALL things that may be able to enhance performance, not just occasional cross-section testing for specifics that are the "in" things for that particular profession to use at the time. Testing isn't accurate, not in the least, otherwise we'd have seen 99% of the olympic athletes knocked out from competing. Gymnasts, sprinters, olympic lifters (who did suffer a great rash of people kept out for failed tests), discuss, javelin, high and long jump...all these people benefit from performance-enhancing drugs, and 100% accurate testing would have most likely eliminated enough people so that everyone left would have gone home with a medal without having to complete. And, if the world's largest sporting event can let so many people on gear through, think about the NFL and every other league's policies and how "tough" they must be.

For the Arnold comments, this was more for Mary to get her a bit more info on what he did than anyone else.

[quote="emphryio"]
A few other things Arnold did:
He told some innocent guy (who was not his competition) that the way to get like him was to eat 30 spoonfuls of ground up walnut shells a day. But just start with one spoon and add a spoon everyday. The poor guy supposedly got to 17 before it just about killed him.


You have to consider Arnold's personality to see where this comes from. Look what the man has done in his lifetime - from being an Austrian immigrant who came to the USA to pursue a bodybuilding career to governor of California, this is a man who isn't afraid to claw and bite to get ahead in any way possible. He was notorious, as Sensless said, for misinforming his competitors to try and derail their progress, not to mention doing his best to psyche out everone he was up against so as to secure himself a #1 spot. This is the case of being a total freakin' a$$hole more that anything else, and as we've seen from his track record, sometimes being an a$$hole pays off big (if you're after the same sort of things he is!)

[quote="emphryio"]
Early in his bodybuilding career he was partially supported by gay guys who liked to hang with him.


That's not something that's any different from bodybuilding today. Let's just say that there are more than a few pros and ams that supplement their income "posing" for men who pay the bucks for either the view or favors that come with it - this has been a part of bodybuilding for a few decades, and I doubt that part is going to change any time soon. Check the archives at www.t-mag.com for some interesting articles on this one.

I won't deny that bodybuilding has more than its share of problems, but I don't think it has any more necessarily than most other sports, other than that the cream of the crop tend to put so much crap into their systems that maintaining proper health can not longer be a concern to them. I doubt we're going to see many, if any, of the current Mr. O competitors reach age 60 (if even 50), but we'll see how that goes in a few decades.

Ryan
User avatar
VeganEssentials
Active Member
 
Posts: 1359
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 1:09 am
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Top

Postby sensless » Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:38 am

[quote]On the set of Predator he got food poisoning, and didn't eat (apparently), lost a lot of weight, but miraculously (?) maintained his muscle. In some shots you can see his rib cage sticking out.


I usually maintain my muscle when I get sick and lose weight. Shoot, I maintain my muscle when I only eat one meal a day.

-Jr.
poop.
User avatar
sensless
Active Member
 
Posts: 1081
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:43 pm
Location: Wisconsin
Top

Postby loreinski » Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:45 am

but not like Arnie.
loreinski
Member
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:46 am

Postby loreinski » Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:59 am

[quote="VeganEssentials"][quote="emphryio"] That's interesting Ryan.
But I don't know if its necessary to confuse things like this. Obviously testing isn't perfect but except for some bodybuilding organizations and baseball they at least try to test. Baseball and pro bodybuilding don't test and they're both a joke.


But, even in "tested" sports, this isn't to say that testing is for every participant (they will often take a cross section of, say, 1 of every 5 or 10 athletes to test), that it is for every drug which could enhance performance, nor is it necessarily done in a way that can't easily be avoided for coming up positive. For example, olympic sprinter Ben Johnson was nabbed for nandrolone use, but apparently this was because his "physician" was supposed to have been administering winstrol, a steroid which clears the system quickly. Nandrolone, on the other hand, lasts far longer (up to a year, if I'm not mistaken), and the mix-up caused him to be detected. Had he been using only winstrol, he may well have had all drugs clear his system in time for testing and been able to easily pass and compete without any difficulties. This doesn't mean that they were necessarily "lucky" with catching him, but that the testing system is quite faulty for trying to be accurate and therefore is just as much to blame as people who know how to easily outwit the tests to begin with. If we're going to say that we'll test for drugs, test EVERYONE, RANDOMLY, and for ALL things that may be able to enhance performance, not just occasional cross-section testing for specifics that are the "in" things for that particular profession to use at the time. Testing isn't accurate, not in the least, otherwise we'd have seen 99% of the olympic athletes knocked out from competing. Gymnasts, sprinters, olympic lifters (who did suffer a great rash of people kept out for failed tests), discuss, javelin, high and long jump...all these people benefit from performance-enhancing drugs, and 100% accurate testing would have most likely eliminated enough people so that everyone left would have gone home with a medal without having to complete. And, if the world's largest sporting event can let so many people on gear through, think about the NFL and every other league's policies and how "tough" they must be.

For the Arnold comments, this was more for Mary to get her a bit more info on what he did than anyone else.

[quote="emphryio"]
A few other things Arnold did:
He told some innocent guy (who was not his competition) that the way to get like him was to eat 30 spoonfuls of ground up walnut shells a day. But just start with one spoon and add a spoon everyday. The poor guy supposedly got to 17 before it just about killed him.


You have to consider Arnold's personality to see where this comes from. Look what the man has done in his lifetime - from being an Austrian immigrant who came to the USA to pursue a bodybuilding career to governor of California, this is a man who isn't afraid to claw and bite to get ahead in any way possible. He was notorious, as Sensless said, for misinforming his competitors to try and derail their progress, not to mention doing his best to psyche out everone he was up against so as to secure himself a #1 spot. This is the case of being a total freakin' a$$hole more that anything else, and as we've seen from his track record, sometimes being an a$$hole pays off big (if you're after the same sort of things he is!)

[quote="emphryio"]
Early in his bodybuilding career he was partially supported by gay guys who liked to hang with him.


That's not something that's any different from bodybuilding today. Let's just say that there are more than a few pros and ams that supplement their income "posing" for men who pay the bucks for either the view or favors that come with it - this has been a part of bodybuilding for a few decades, and I doubt that part is going to change any time soon. Check the archives at www.t-mag.com for some interesting articles on this one.

I won't deny that bodybuilding has more than its share of problems, but I don't think it has any more necessarily than most other sports, other than that the cream of the crop tend to put so much crap into their systems that maintaining proper health can not longer be a concern to them. I doubt we're going to see many, if any, of the current Mr. O competitors reach age 60 (if even 50), but we'll see how that goes in a few decades.

Ryan



Arnie was good in the movies that he made, cept the later ones, when he was pregnant...terrible.

He rode his myth right to the end. But in the end he ended up flabby, and more "joke" like than ever before. A conservative fool. He gets no credo in my eyes, cept for a action "80's" dvd night - especially Commando, the one liners in that hilarious.

He probably was dodgy and did some dodgy things (there we go, that word "honesty"). He wanted to be some hero, but we know he liked the dope, the girls, and the racist slurs. He (Arnie) personifies a lot of myths in BB. But I don't care about that, I watch his early movies and enjoy them. But I can't stand him now.
loreinski
Member
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:46 am
Top

Postby sensless » Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:32 pm

[quote]but not like Arnie.


Obviously. I'm not 6'2" and 240 pounds, I'm only 5'10" and 198 pounds. But I do retain what little muscle mass I do have when I get sick. A fine example is me getting strep throat last week, and then my first time back in the gym I pulled a new PR in deadlift besting my previous best by 20 pounds.

The set of Predator was supposed to be a pretty silly one. With all the guys getting pumped up before going on the set, or sneaking off to lift and train and then claiming they weren't doing anything.

When Arnold smoked, drank, and chased women, he was behaving as I think most men behave while they are in their early to mid 20's-plus he didn't deny any of it. I won't hold him to a different standard than I hold myself. I've smoked, drank and chased women before, and it was damn fun! But people usually move past that, and when they do I think it is fitting that those that decide to judge should move past it as well. It is, afterall, in the past.

If you are a fan of BB'ing, then you should at least be thankful for Arnie for bringing the sport a larger fan base and being one of the causes for such a boom in the fitness industry. I'm thankful for that, and I'm thankful for his crappy but entertaining films. Especially Hercules in New York. If you haven't seen that, you haven't seen a bad movie.

Regards,

John Jr.
poop.
User avatar
sensless
Active Member
 
Posts: 1081
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:43 pm
Location: Wisconsin
Top

Postby muscle-militia » Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:27 pm

OK -so we all agree that we dont agree. But that is good surly. The way I see it, I am glad guys are passionate about drug free bodybuilding, as I am a drug free and promote the sport. I too am glad that guys are passionate or at least accept those who challenge convention and go the drug route.

Arnie was, and still is a genius in mind games, he used to send flowers to competitors saying “wow - you got it this year” just to be the buddy. Then say - “Hey y’know you could come in 5lbs heavier” and trash their diet prep. Winners - win, at any cost. You can say what you like about Arnie, but he was open - or rather is now about drug use. He used (reportedly) 25+ dbols as well as injectable cycles. But this was nothing new - steroid was first reported used in sport as long ago as 1890. Indian strong men have scripture dating back 2,000 years of Deltoidea being used that is still a main herb of steroid.

Today - folk I work with in soccer & rugby. Just to let you know some stuff going on:
Blood doping: massive in soccer, remove pint of your own blood - add amphetamine, replace before match (up to the whole pint!) this gives extra oxygen, hence more energy/power and can hide the effect of speed as it is in the blood, not urine.

Equibolan - Horse drugs, designed to me non-detectable (as horse racing is massive cash) and taken by membrane transfer - via the gum.

Ventolin - yes the asthma drug - it is a stimulant. Overdose and it acts like speed - hard to detect!

Tetrahydrogestrinone (THG - Dwain Chambers and 27 soccer & 42 rugby players under investigation 04) Again its origins is equine (horse) but only as to how it is delivered the blood stream. Horse racing being a billion dollar industry is at the forefront of ‘doping’ and found out that injectables can show up in blood urine as much of the ‘product’ such as Stanozolol molecules bond to the oil molecules. This then is carried to urine, and appears in plasma. Tablets pass through the liver & kidneys twice, so a similar amount ca be found. However they found that a concentrated steroid if placed under the tongue would absorb quickly through the cheek membrane, leaving little trace.
This though is old news - how is THG unique?
It doesn’t. What makes THG unique is how they have developed the molecules themselves, as they appear like and can be mistaken for carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are simply carbons mixed with hydogens and attached to sugars, fibres or starches. The more of these elements are combined the more complex the carbohydrate (hence simple and complex carbs). Why THG is called the designer steroid is because they have managed to attach 4 hydrogen molecules to its own compound camouflaging itself as a complex carb - simple and very clever. The steroid was there all along - just mistaken for dextrose etc. Once discovered they can now test and find it - hence many premiership footballers and other athletes are running scared. THG is one of many believed designer roid.
However the real breakthrough/fear depending on what side of the fence you sit is Gene therapy. There is a feeling that some of the top in BB and other sports have undergone gene therapy. Such as altering the gene that produces Myostatin secretion whereby you have unlimited growth.

But, competitions are never more separate. Natural shows are marketed as such. So by the time you compete - you know what the deal is…if not yer as dumb as a bucket o rocks. There is a place for both I believe.
100% Natural - 100% meat free muscle!!
User avatar
muscle-militia
Active Member
 
Posts: 282
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:50 am
Location: Devon

Postby Quizeen » Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:28 pm

[quote="Mary"]So Arnold definitely took steroids then? Cause I know people who insist that he didn't.

Surely that should rule him out as a politician - if he took illegal drugs?


Oh Mary, that's the least of the reasons why he should promptly be removed from office! As a native Californian, I have been sickened and embarrassed by his political non-policies the likes we haven't seen since that pig Ronald Regan was in office and destroyed the community college system. One of his lesser, more recent atrocities was his attempt to reduce the amount of time animals were allowed to remain in shelters before being killed (down to 48 hours!). The public outcry was enough to force him to conceed and limit his scope to sparing cats and dogs but allowing reptiles, rodents, and birds to be killed after 2 days. Whata freakin' sweetheart. :roll:

In light of the difficulties that testing presents it seems that Pete has the right idea. But it seems as if it would be impossible to implement a truly natural contest. If the drugs are so difficult to detect then what would stop people who use them from signing onto natural contests and gaining a false edge?
Quizeen
Active Member
 
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:27 pm
Location: Long Beach, California
Top

Postby Strix » Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:45 pm

Quizeen, definitely only the tip of the iceberg...AS is a sexist homophobe who reiterated his offensive "girly man" comment at the RNC a couple nights ago. This, after a public outcry that it was offensive, insulting and damaging; to which he responded that he would NOT apologize. Then, to repeat it to a group resembling euphoric KKK members, applauding and cheering at a woman sending her son off to Iraq, at a convention which will be seen around the world, was nothing short of obscene.
And I won't even go into how on earth a man who has amassed a fortune promoting, glorifying and desensitizing violence could be appointed to positions of prominence for children...I believe it was Ronald Ray-gun who began his evil rise.
"The hand that signed the paper felled a city;
Five sovereign fingers taxed the breath,
Doubled the globe of dead and halved a country;
These five kings did a king to death."
-Dylan Thomas
User avatar
Strix
Active Member
 
Posts: 1072
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 10:02 pm
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

Postby Mary » Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:02 pm

I know that if he took drugs it is the least of his crimes. I just thought that in a society where sexism, homophobia, warmongering were ignored, drug abuse might be useable to get rid of the sod. (bastard, pervert, piece of shit... not however a pig! :D I like pigs...)

Anyone else heard about his dad being a nazi? Seems that the republicans attract a fair share of the descendants of nazis. Not necessarily proving that they are nazis themselves, but lets face it the apple doesn't fall far from the tree...

Also, did you know Arnold approached Stephen Speilberg, asking to play Schindler in Schindlers List? Speilberg told him to get stuffed. Then apparently he approached other directors, wanting to play a sympathetic SS officer...
User avatar
Mary
Active Member
 
Posts: 4623
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 6:37 pm
Location: Midlands

Postby muscle-militia » Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:05 pm

[quote] But it seems as if it would be impossible to implement a truly natural contest. If the drugs are so difficult to detect then what would stop people who use them from signing onto natural contests and gaining a false edge?


Trust me - you can tell the dif between us clean n them roid - Stu has 26 inch arms - mine 20…that lotta difference. Also the Polygraph never fails!

Lil secret tho…now hair is being analysed and this will show all - even insulin for over a year - no cheatin now!
100% Natural - 100% meat free muscle!!
User avatar
muscle-militia
Active Member
 
Posts: 282
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:50 am
Location: Devon
Top

Postby Quizeen » Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:37 pm

Hey you're right. My specieism was rearing its ugly head :(. Not pig, how about ass hat? I think ass hat suits him. :)

Yeah, I'd say 26-inch arms might be a bit of a giveaway.
Quizeen
Active Member
 
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:27 pm
Location: Long Beach, California

PreviousNext

Return to Bodybuilding and Training with Weights

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests