How many times?

Lifting weights whether for bodybuilding, toning, or just for general fitness.

Moderators: hardcore iv, fredrikw, JP, stateofflux, bronco

How many times?

Postby Strix » Tue Aug 24, 2004 4:16 pm

How many times a week should I be working biceps? And what else besides biceps curls? I am planning on getting the bar for chinups someone recommended me a while back -- will that help with biceps?
"The hand that signed the paper felled a city;
Five sovereign fingers taxed the breath,
Doubled the globe of dead and halved a country;
These five kings did a king to death."
-Dylan Thomas
User avatar
Strix
Active Member
 
Posts: 1072
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 10:02 pm
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

Postby kettlebellnut » Tue Aug 24, 2004 4:44 pm

I'd imagine no more than 2x per week.

Bicep curls, concentration curls, and pull exercises like rows can work the bicep. Don't forget you triceps!

Hindu push-ups and inverted dog pose can help work the endurance muscles of the arm..

I'm sure that some of our more advanced members some good advice on this topic.
User avatar
kettlebellnut
Active Member
 
Posts: 402
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:05 am
Location: WA, USA

Postby JP » Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:33 pm

I think the ideal amount of bicep work per week is:

0

;)

Honestly, i don't work my biceps personally, ok, i'm not a bodybuilder, but i wouldn't work my biceps even if i was, at least not before i'm about 230lbs. Deadlifts, rows, pullups all hit your biceps hard already.
User avatar
JP
Site Admin
 
Posts: 19190
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:14 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany

Postby wannalift » Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:36 pm

my biceps are doing real well now and i'm only training them once every 2 weeks. i find they are getting well worked over with the weighted pullups and farmers walks.
~david
wannalift
Active Member
 
Posts: 1910
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Postby sensless » Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:35 pm

Training frequency with biceps is one of the most widely inconsistent muscle groups I have encountered. I have found that many people's arms get enough work through their other exercises that they don't need to do any targeted training at all. Though I think there is a point where your body becomes strong enough that training becomes necessary, but even then working them more than one time every week is rarely necessary. Of course there are people like my father who could train his arms every day and have them constantly grow and become stronger, so just play around and see what works best for you.
poop.
User avatar
sensless
Active Member
 
Posts: 1081
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:43 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Postby Strix » Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:04 am

[quote="vegmason"]I'd imagine no more than 2x per week.

Bicep curls, concentration curls, and pull exercises like rows can work the bicep. Don't forget you triceps!

Hindu push-ups and inverted dog pose can help work the endurance muscles of the arm..

I'm sure that some of our more advanced members some good advice on this topic.


"Bicep curls..." - Yes, I do those
"concentration curls..." - don't know what that is
"and pull exercises like rows can work the bicep..." Okay, thanks!
"Don't forget you triceps" I'm no triceps, vegmason :P
"Hindu push-ups..." No idea what those are
"and inverted dog pose can help work the endurance..." sorry, vegmason, I'm not into that kinky stuff.




















:P
"The hand that signed the paper felled a city;
Five sovereign fingers taxed the breath,
Doubled the globe of dead and halved a country;
These five kings did a king to death."
-Dylan Thomas
User avatar
Strix
Active Member
 
Posts: 1072
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 10:02 pm
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

Postby Strix » Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:09 am

Come on, JP and sensless! You brats know what I mean. I want to build muscle to get some shape and cuts in my arms. I don't want bigger arms, just bigger muscle to replace the shapelessness.
I don't know why i can't seem to shape my arms. This is really a tough area for me. I guess it's because I'm not working them right and most likely working them too many days (even though I only spend about 10 minutes on them per session)
"The hand that signed the paper felled a city;
Five sovereign fingers taxed the breath,
Doubled the globe of dead and halved a country;
These five kings did a king to death."
-Dylan Thomas
User avatar
Strix
Active Member
 
Posts: 1072
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 10:02 pm
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

Postby CENTURION 2 CENTS » Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:57 am

DOUBLE POST: you may delete this one mods, I posted again repeating this below thinking it would appear HERE but did not but nevermind.

The ONE below will stay thanks.
Last edited by CENTURION 2 CENTS on Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
ЖЖЖЖЖЖЖЖЖЖ health-enthusiast-*vegan*-fitness-guru-fanatic--with passion-for-exercise & mind. Spiritual-into vitality-wellbeing-weights, compassion, eco-sustaining lifestyle.. (the only lifestyle)
User avatar
CENTURION 2 CENTS
Active Member
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:20 am
Location: UK, in England, heading South eventually/soon!

Postby CENTURION 2 CENTS » Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:04 am

sorry to contradict senseless, but anyway my own point of view is that biceps don't seem to me inconsistent in anyway.. since they don't exactly over-tire easily to my knowledge and in my experience although, maybe]
susceptible slightly to over-training for sure, unlikes shoulders which can take even bigger usage (even for not so broad shouldered people).

If anything biceps are the easiest parts of your body to train, but you gotta realize Strix training can be a slow ass bizness, even grueling bizness, SOMETIMES, and its easy to get impatient and disheartened when first starting out, and so even though you eat very well, it may take years (OR months of being fairly intensive) for your body to really adjust to what is being thrown at it so to speak. Toning up is a longer process than people think, especially as a vegan, since toning up is just as hard as putting on muscle IMO.

You must be past the stage of initial adjustment though Strix surely with all the work I gather you've been doing!!

My advice from what I've known may not be true for you, but I had well thin arms to begin with too. And remember its the bone you've got to
build up as well as the sinues and muscle.
Only when you gain muscle can you proceed to get off on being able to bulk instantaneously and easily to any extent. . . . . . And such bulking effect can offer a temporary effect to induce, more energy and solidity
in the muscle which for you in mind as woman especially doesn't correlate to having to get big of course, I am mainly talking about the ability of the body to produce a pump action in the muscle which after many months of conditioning should enable this for you with ease as said without all the struggles you experience when you first start out.
ЖЖЖЖЖЖЖЖЖЖ health-enthusiast-*vegan*-fitness-guru-fanatic--with passion-for-exercise & mind. Spiritual-into vitality-wellbeing-weights, compassion, eco-sustaining lifestyle.. (the only lifestyle)
User avatar
CENTURION 2 CENTS
Active Member
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:20 am
Location: UK, in England, heading South eventually/soon!

Postby Mary » Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:38 am

Hi Strix.

You are curling - good! What I am doing to build and shape mine up is six sets of six repetitions, curls. When I am not too knackered I also do isolation curls - sit down, with your elbow on your knee, hanging the weight inside the leg. Then curl up to your shoulder, then drop again.

The point of doing shorter sets, but more of them is that you can use a heavier weight than if you are doing the 3 sets of 12 thing. If you use a heavier weight it works your muscle that much harder. You should find the last curl hard to do. This seems to be working far quicker for me than the whole 3x12 that I had been doing before.

Work your triceps on different days. And look at yoga too - check out the holistic forum for ideas. My god, it hurts! More than the weights, if you do it properly.
User avatar
Mary
Active Member
 
Posts: 4623
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 6:37 pm
Location: Midlands

Postby funfetus » Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:56 pm

I definitely recommend getting started on those pullups. That, plus some curls, should give you more than enough bicep work. Most people focus far too much on bicep exercises. Whole-body training is where it's at.

And don't forget, the most important thing about getting "cuts" is low bodyfat.
funfetus
Active Member
 
Posts: 663
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:02 am
Location: Covina, CA

Bicep Training

Postby sensless » Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:58 pm

Strix (and C2cents),

Intensity and consistency of training are the major factors when working any muscle group.

The inconsistency I was referring to in my post, albeit unclearly and/or incompletely, was the inconsistency in results from individual to individual with targeted bicep training. I have found that individuals responses when training chest, back, legs and shoulders to produce more consistent results than arm training, which is where my comparative statement is derived from.

This recommendation is based off my particular experience and the experiences of approximately ten individuals that I have shared it with. It is by no means the absolute method that will work for everyone, but my experience dictates that it works well with individuals that have a hard time making improvements in their arms despite training consistently and intensely (intense meaning maximum effort).

Arms have always been a weak point for me, relatively speaking, and when I was much lighter, 165 pounds or less with arms never measuring larger than 14.5 inches, I found that if I would specifically train my biceps they would get stronger though often shrink in size and then plateau in strength. Furthermore, when I would stop training them directly they would grow by approximately 1/2 inch within 4-5 weeks without losing strength. This is a common sign of over-training. Once I discovered this I made this information available to many of my friends or gym mates that had experienced similar difficulties in getting results with bicep training, and every single one of them experienced results similar to my own, perhaps the growth was slightly slower or higher, etc., but similar in the manner they would make better gains when removing targeted bicep training. Some people I spoke to about this particular situation (individuals that had large well-developed biceps) described it as the "16 inch rule", which means you shouldn't really train your arms much until they get to around “16 inches”. Sixteen inches is merely an arbitrary number chosen by them and should not be taken literally, everyone’s 16-inch point may be different. After about a period of one year of consistent training that did not include regular bicep training, I found that my arms were beginning to at long last become a weak point, strength-wise, and holding me back on my other lifts. This means I waited a bit too long to bring targeted bicep training back into my routine, but I found that when I did bring it back in my arms grew in strength and size relatively quickly. I found that my “16-inch point” was around 15.5 inches, and at that point my biceps would then peak out until I began targeted training, which allowed them to finally break the actual 16-inch mark was a longtime goal of mine.

This entire learning process occurred over a period of 6 years of experimentation and workout documentation, but it is specific to my particular body-included in the 6 years is the several years of over-training before I was made aware of the aforementioned “16-inch” rule. Other people may have a similar situation to me and this may work for them as well. If your arms don't ever get sore or feel like they get a pump or workout from doing your major muscle movements, then I would suggest including bicep-targeted exercises as you probably have reached your “16-inch point”. When this is reached, I would recommend not training your arms more than once per week, even though they recover quickly, because they receive work while performing many non-arm targeted exercises.

Speaking of targeted muscle exercises, I have found that many people who have arms that respond well to curling receive the highest results from doing two particular exercises. The first being a single-arm dumbbell preacher curl (curling with your arm on an incline bench) and the second being a two-arm barbell curl. Depending on your body, once again, the form used for these exercises may need to be adjusted slightly to receive better results. For those with arms that don’t respond well, such as myself, I found that dumbbell hammer curls and two-arm barbell curls, with the form changed from what I would consider the standard form, produced the best results. The form change on the barbell curls I don’t know how to explain in words, but if you are interested I can have Ryan make a video to show you.

Strix, I don't know how you train so it is difficult to hypothesize what is the cause of your particular situation, therefore listing several possible solutions and then trying them to see what works best would probably be your best option. Further information on your current training regiment and results you have experienced from it would allow for a better analysis and solution recommendation.

Just to touch on a slight semantics topic, training to tone and training to build muscle involve identical training in the weight-room, they are both actually an attempt to increase the muscle mass, where the difference lies is in your diet and aerobic efforts.

I hope that this is a more clearly written and of better use to you.

Regards,

John Jr.

PS When I refer to arm training in this, I am simply referring to bicep training and not tricep training (I hope!).
poop.
User avatar
sensless
Active Member
 
Posts: 1081
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:43 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Postby Strix » Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:52 pm

Thank you to Everyone, I got a lot of info from you all. I'll pick up that bar for pullups today!

sensless, thank you for taking the time to post all that detail :). I really appreciate it. What I glean from your post is that you are referring to gaining size; is that correct? I do understand that I must build bigger muscle in order for it to overtake, so to speak, the fat; but I'm looking for sculpted arms. You said once per week once one has reached that plateau -- would that be something for me to try?

I have been working out for about 15 years. At my best (aside from being younger :? ), I was eating optimally; so I realize that is actually 97% of my issue. I'm workin' on it :). But I also know that I struggle with weight -- meaning, I can lose quite a bit when my metabolism kicks up. I run and eat every 2-3 hours. When I was eating optimally, I looked good, but I had a hard time getting enough water and calories. Anyway, it can be a battle for me. So while I'm working on getting back to optimal eating habits, I want to become more sculpted as I cut back on running, which I really need to do. I have an excess of energy and running, aside from keeping me sane, allows me to sleep! (Becoming vegan increased what was already an overload of energy).

I allude to the age excuse because I am a realist. I also have noticed some changes. For example, I used to be able to do nothing but run and have cut arms. I've always had too much fat on my upper arm/triceps area. Now it seems to be traveling all the way down to my elbow :lol: . Maybe seeing what type of arm I'm working with will help?

Maybe you can see it and give specific advice for my problem. Note the weight below the biceps. That's quite a hunk of meat :D. And notice how my "biceps" seem sort of long...in other words, I don't have that muscle rounded...Know what I mean? This pic is actually pretty bad in that it does not show the little bit of cutting that I have gained, but it's basically correct.

Saddest part is...I'm actually flexing in this pic :oops:



Thanks! :)[/i]
Last edited by Strix on Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The hand that signed the paper felled a city;
Five sovereign fingers taxed the breath,
Doubled the globe of dead and halved a country;
These five kings did a king to death."
-Dylan Thomas
User avatar
Strix
Active Member
 
Posts: 1072
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 10:02 pm
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

Postby Mary » Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:03 pm

That is actually not a bad arm. Also, not too different from my own, and I have delusions of body building!

Maybe if you manage to get a bit of protien down you every two three hours - just a handful of nuts, hummous on rye bread, etc. And maybe overtrain a bit for a few weeks, twice a week maybe, then cut back to one. I imagine that will work - don't over train for too long though. If you are doing other weight training I wouldn't work the biceps twice a week for more than three four weeks. I honestly think that will work.

So we finally got to see a bit of the Strix. 8) What is this woman, a virtual strip tease? :lol: Maybe we will see more as things progress...
User avatar
Mary
Active Member
 
Posts: 4623
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 6:37 pm
Location: Midlands

Postby JO » Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:05 pm

love the birdcage in the background! :)

I think you've toned all you can and now it's time for overload (heavier weights & fewer reps) to get the cuts you want as per Mary & probably Sensless et al. Eat more, of course. I doubt you'll bulk like you're afraid of.

:)
Kinetic-corporeal joy is known to ALL creatures.
JO
Active Member
 
Posts: 1259
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 6:49 pm

Next

Return to Bodybuilding and Training with Weights

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests