Squat Video, critique my form

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Re: Squat Video, critique my form

Postby baldy » Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:27 am

vegan hal wrote:that video is just sick.

Mine?

vegan hal wrote:can someone explain "levers" to me?

levers as in the lengths of your limbs. I think the issue is normally from long torso or femur. Any excuse really :)

vegan hal wrote:i've found when squatting that I can only do it comfortably w/ an open grip.

ie with your thumb on top? I have always squatted like that because when I started I read someone on the internet saying it was best. Now it feels akward and sore on my wrists to put my thumb under the bar. Saying that my hands can go numb if I go 10 reps with my thumb on top.

vegan hal wrote:it's funny, as I have such a similar build to Baldy and similar issues. although he's younger and i'm sure get the more attention from the babes. :P

Issues beating the ladies off with a stick?
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Re: Squat Video, critique my form

Postby SpugFab » Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:56 am

baldy wrote:Fundamentally the problem is that I am too tall

There must be some 6 footish guys who have managed to squat 140kg?

Since we never used to accept this excuse from Jono, I'm not convinced you can get away with it.
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Re: Squat Video, critique my form

Postby baldy » Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:03 am

SpugFab wrote:Since we never used to accept this excuse from Jono, I'm not convinced you can get away with it.

Trying to find a video of Jono squatting despite his bad levers.
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Re: Squat Video, critique my form

Postby ninearms » Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:26 am

baldy wrote:
SpugFab wrote:Since we never used to accept this excuse from Jono, I'm not convinced you can get away with it.

Trying to find a video of Jono squatting despite his bad levers.


Just watch the Chakarov video. His levers are so "bad" he can't even pull the bar off the ground without moving it forwards to get round his knees. And yet he back squatted 350kg@90ish kg.
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Re: Squat Video, critique my form

Postby baldy » Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:30 am

To much lever talk dragging the thread off topic, I want a magic technique fix that I can use to add 40kg to my squat.

Will post new video when I get the magic shoes.

baldy wrote:
SpugFab wrote:I think your problems are about letting the bar go forward. I'd try keeping the chest up a bit, tighten up the back. Maybe slow down your descent? It seems to get away from you a bit.

Played around with it today, keeping the chest through so it felt like it was higher than the bar and went down in a really slow controlled way. Felt good going down, not sure if I hit depth then coming up all the weight was on my quads and it felt horrible.
Is that the way its meant to feel?

On the last set of my 5x5 I had to do my normal quick decent and bounce up or I would have failed :(

Should it feel like all the weight is on my quads, and should I try use the bounce or is the bounce losing the tightness in my back?
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Re: Squat Video, critique my form

Postby SpugFab » Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:36 am

Has the world gone mad? Are we seriously putting Baldy's squatting problems down to his freakish height?

I would lose the Unit 20 bounce. Your upper body has all the rigidity of overcooked pasta, so the bounce just serves to collapse you forward. Get more air in your belly, get the back muscles tighter. Don't let the bar go forward.
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Re: Squat Video, critique my form

Postby ninearms » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:06 am

You can control the descent, catch the bounce AND stay tight. It just needs practice AKA repetition AKA volume. 5 sets of 10 after your top set followed by Kroc rows and weighted abs.

You also need to sort out your flexibility issues - if your back is rounding pulling 60kg off the ground (and is actually already rounded before the weight even leaves the floor) then no technique fix is going to stop the bar moving forwards when you squat.

When your back looks like this off the floor I suspect your squat will also look better:
Image

Fix your hamstrings - you feel it all in your quads because your hamstrings are tight and can't exert force.

When you can do 20 pullups I also suspect your squat will look better. Your ability to keep your upper back tight (as well as strong abs) is what stops the bar moving forwards.

There is no magic fix. Goblet squats will help though.

In summary:

1) Sort out your flexibility/mobility
2) Put on some muscle.
3) Practice.
4) Upper back strength.
5) Abs
6) Don't wear baggy pyjamas when asking for form advice. It's like trying to write a review of a play performed entirely behind the curtain.
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Re: Squat Video, critique my form

Postby buzz » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:26 am

Unit 20 recommends the following;

1 - pull your belt tighter. It's the same as having strong abs.
2 - bounce higher, to get you through the sticking point.
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Re: Squat Video, critique my form

Postby vegan hal » Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:17 pm

well Baldy aint "Freakishly" tall. I'm pretty sure he's 6'2"/6'3" just like me. but it's a good excuse. ;) Isn;t Jonathan 6'8" or something? my rule is 6'5" and above is the "freakish" range.

thanks for explaining "levers" to me. i'm still learning.

I think ninearms has the right advice. he always seems to. I did at his recommendation move to 5x10 on my BP, OHP BB rows, and Dips. still do it on Dips and BB rows. seemed to help my BP and OHP well. and I think i may go back to it for a while. I think the hamstrings are Baldy's issue. and that's mine too. I don't have the rounding back issue on DL though, but I don't lift anywhere near what he does.

been doing 3x3 on squats myself and it's been working. but when i do hit the wall with it, I'll try the 5x10 on it for a while. can;t hurt to try.

oh, and GREAT PIC!!!
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Re: Squat Video, critique my form

Postby SpugFab » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:24 pm

While I enjoy ninearms' avalanche approach to internet coaching as much as the next man, I'm not sure I agree about Baldy's lack of flexibility. Isn't he a hippy yoga type? And used to do aikido? I'd guess he has enough flexibility to squat to parallel better than he's doing currently.

The point the bar starts to move forward is so high it makes me think it isn't flexibility. When I squat (especially narrow stance) my lower back can tuck under causing me to lose the bar forward. That's a flexibility issue. Baldy is heading forward almost from the start of the squat. That's a technique issue.

I'm not sure about his lack of back strength either. I don't think he's using his back muscles at all. He isn't starting off tight then losing it due to lack of strength, he's never tight. Right from the start he's about as stable as a [insert stability simile similar to earlier overcooked pasta reference]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDaQo3eODrY

The advice is all solid "how to squat heavier" advice, but I believe that Baldy can squat more weight right now without extra muscle, flexibility or equipment from Buzz's shop :wink:
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Re: Squat Video, critique my form

Postby ninearms » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:08 pm

SpugFab wrote:While I enjoy ninearms' avalanche approach to internet coaching as much as the next man, I'm not sure I agree about Baldy's lack of flexibility. Isn't he a hippy yoga type? And used to do aikido? I'd guess he has enough flexibility to squat to parallel better than he's doing currently.

The point the bar starts to move forward is so high it makes me think it isn't flexibility. When I squat (especially narrow stance) my lower back can tuck under causing me to lose the bar forward. That's a flexibility issue. Baldy is heading forward almost from the start of the squat. That's a technique issue.


Have you seen Baldy's deadlift videos? He can't even get an arched back in the start position, nevermind maintain it with any weight on the bar, and has said before that his hamstrings are very tight. IMO, based on his deadlift videos, Baldy is heading forward from the start because he has poor thoracic mobility which put the bar forwards from the top. This is then compounded in the bottom position by poor hamstring flexibility and a weak upper back (again, self-professed). Yes, there most likely are technique issues, but no one's ever going to correct those while being tight as a gnat's chuff, because they simply won't be able to adopt the appropriate positions.

Whether or not he can squat heavier is somewhat irrelevant in the context of the thread. I'm sure he could grind out some horrible bent-over wobbling squat morning with more weight on the bar, but that's not going to make him a better squatter.
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Re: Squat Video, critique my form

Postby SpugFab » Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:50 pm

Can't say I'm a subscriber to Baldy's youtube channel, no.

I think you are too quick to jump all over the flexibility issue. The video depicts a man squatting with no attempt to prevent the bar falling forward, so you diagnose a lack of thoracic mobility causing the bar to fall forward. This is akin to watching a video of a man struggling to lick his elbows and telling him the reason he can't touch his toes is because he doesn't have enough hamstring flexibility. You might be right, but it's not obvious from the video.

ninearms wrote:Whether or not he can squat heavier is somewhat irrelevant in the context of the thread. I'm sure he could grind out some horrible bent-over wobbling squat morning with more weight on the bar, but that's not going to make him a better squatter.

Neither is putting less weight on the bar and further grooving this dodgy squat pattern. Before embarking on a 5x10 program I'd like to see his technique improve. He'll get far more out of it.

You have to remember that Baldy's formative iron years were spent in "The Land That Form Forgot". There's a buzz-sized gap in his education.
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Re: Squat Video, critique my form

Postby ninearms » Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:00 pm

SpugFab wrote:Can't say I'm a subscriber to Baldy's youtube channel, no.

I think you are too quick to jump all over the flexibility issue. The video depicts a man squatting with no attempt to prevent the bar falling forward, so you diagnose a lack of thoracic mobility causing the bar to fall forward. This is akin to watching a video of a man struggling to lick his elbows and telling him the reason he can't touch his toes is because he doesn't have enough hamstring flexibility. You might be right, but it's not obvious from the video.


Hence why I referred to the deadlift videos, which are far more revealing. TBH I barely looked at the squat videos simply because pretty much everything that's useful to see is covered up by loose clothing and plates. No need to subscribe either - Baldy's posted them here.
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Re: Squat Video, critique my form

Postby baldy » Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:13 pm

Nice in depth squat discussion, I like it.

In my defense my hamstrings are tight but I think I am more aware of it because I am tall and I do aikido and yoga. They are also getting better, my DL form is a lot better. Might even film my deadlifts tomorrow (in some really baggy clothing).

I cant feel hamstring tightness when I squat, but it is maybe what causes my hips to just below parallel.

After 5x5 squats and 5x5 bench I am exhausted 5x10 is just not viable unless you do the 5/3/1 which I am not keen on going back to. I have started doing more volume in my assistance to work on getting bigger lats, which are clearly letting me down on the beach.

My formative years where spent solo in the same bb gym that I train at now, people do not make eye contact with you, let allow offer advice on squatting. That was before I got the Unit 20 treatment.

Due to deload, so will start at 65% of my 1RM doing 5x5 and work on the form. 5x5 max is 100kg, 1RM is 132.5kg 65% will be 85kg.
Any more points to add to my mantra.
- tighter back
- tight shoulder in all 4 directions
- push neck into the bar
- sit more back
- bigger chest, more air
- go down slowly
- dont go too deep and lose tension
- dont bounce
- get some oly shoes
- look sexy.


SpugFab wrote:The advice is all solid "how to squat heavier" advice, but I believe that Baldy can squat more weight right now without extra muscle, flexibility or equipment from Buzz's shop :wink:

I feel like I can squat 150+ kg!
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Re: Squat Video, critique my form

Postby vegan hal » Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:20 pm

baldy wrote:- look sexy.


i think ninearms wants you to film your squats/DLs in an outfit like this. :P :P

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