Train Smart?

Lifting weights whether for bodybuilding, toning, or just for general fitness.

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Train Smart?

Postby Heyutang » Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:35 am

Hi,

I wonder if anyone else in here was using the Train Smart method, as suggested by Pete Sisco (I bought his ebook http://www.precisiontraining.com/ebook. ... ce=LPM-BLZ)? It basically means that you train with a VERY high intensity (very partial reps, low reps, very heavy weight, fast) and rest a lot. The first three weeks you may do 2 training sessions per week, after that you're down to one per week, and later one in 2 weeks andsoforth. I have been doing it for a few weeks and the results are very encouraging. Only 5 exercises per session (mainly comppunds). Some of his trainees do 3000 lbs leg presses, and 1000lbs shrugs, 300 lbs sit-ups!!

Impressive, no? As a physiotherapist I find his explanations sound very rational.

Heard of him?
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Postby JP » Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:32 am

Haven't heard of him specially, but I've read a lot of different HIT methods (high intensity training) and to be honest they do not sound very smart - and the natural suspicion towards any guru powered approach also kicks in. What i mean is that why would a trainer, especially a relative new one, start using methods propagated by a very small marginal group trying to make money out of their "new and revolutionary" methods.

regarding what works and what not - everything works, but some approaches work better. And the obvious lack of HIT trainers in competetive powerlifting or weightlifting tells me a clear story that it is not a good approach for strength, and the lack of HIT trainers in top bodybuilding world tells a story as well. There are of course the odd exeption, but even Dorian Yates who many HIT people quote as one example trained with a high frequency.
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Postby Heyutang » Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:23 am

JP, if you have time there is another interesting but very long thread on this subject here: http://davedraper.com/forum/showflat.ph ... ber/14352/
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Postby CENTURION 2 CENTS » Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:04 am

[quote="JP"] but even Dorian Yates who many HIT people quote as one example trained with a high frequency. [....???]

JP,

........Seems likely to me you might have had something extra to conclude
ending that sentence that fell thru??... bekoz in sounds like a conclusion of
something when you start with "but even" with reference to whatever makes him/her an example about Dorian Yates that you indicate as being a possible exception to the rule of whom HIT works well for as opposed to generally it not working so good for strength (for most people) you say
....and so is that all... I felt sure like you were going to comment more on this Dorian Yates, whoever he/she is??..
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Postby JP » Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:12 am

there might be a comma missing, don't know :)

What i meant is that even dorian yates (winner of multiple Mr. Olympia titles) trained with high frequency and often multiple sets as well, eventhough he is often quoted as an example of HIT approach (high intensity, low frequency training).
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Postby Heyutang » Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:11 pm

it may be just a crazy idea, but could it be that most of the people are actually reluctant to really commit to this kind of HIT because they think they might lose muscle mass/strength?
Pete Sisco has done tests with groups of people, I remember a group of golfers who significantly increased their strength. Dunno about experienced bodybuilders though. But he has trainees with amazing results.
If you have time, read the thread mentioned above. Some experienced bodybuilders discuss the system there. The thing is that the theory really makes sense. I have good results. I will post again later to report any further progress, or the lack of it. Just give me some months of lazy short workouts and lots of recovery time :D
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Postby JP » Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:09 pm

i skimmed over the thread you linked, and also recognized couple familiar names of posters from other boards :)

I've seen these discussions held on message boards million times, but it is my honest opinion that the anti-HIT side arguments are more grounded on practical experience of powerlifting, olympic lifting and bodybuilding practisers and coaches, they also have more solid science to back up their arguments. I'm not good with finer details of sport science - for my common sense approach it is enough to see how the strongest and the most powerful people train.

I'm sure he has trainees with amazing results - all of these gurus selling their revolutionary methods have, be it in bodybuilding, nutrition, or knitting.
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Postby sensless » Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:21 pm

HIT doesn't necessarily mean low frequency training. It also doesn't mean you necessarily only do one set. I have found that many people leave out too much detail in articles about this style of training and it leads to much confusion. From what I have experienced with HIT is that it is difficult to maintain that level of intensity over a long time frame. The HIT warm-up sets, to me, have often looked like normal sets of others training methods. So if you are going to use HIT, for benching as an example, and you have a max of 200 pounds you may do three warm up sets with progressive weights of 115, 135, 155 and then do the 'actual' set at 180 for 6-8 reps.

The other problem about many of the different training methods, that one can read in magazines, that different pro's have used is that they don't often show lifting programs that have shown great success for non-steroid or non-supplement abusing athletes. This often causes many people that don't use the drugs/supplements to become quickly over trained when trying to follow them. This leads us back to HIT becoming apparently more successful because it doesn't prompt a person to do 4 exercises at each body part for 10 sets of 10 reps at 74% of your 1 rep max (overtraining).

I have found that people that do follow HIT, I mean in a dedicated fashion, have experienced quality results especially when used on people that are prone to overtraining. It is a nice style change to put into a more traditional routine that has started to plateau on its results.

Regards,

John Jr.

PS HIT (or is it HITT) has been around since Mike Metzger if I remember correctly. That's over 20 years so it should have enough well founded examples of success that it can be considered a legitimate exercise method that is not new. There is also a book about performing a single set of 20 squats, using a weight that you would normally use for a set of 10, which was used long before the steroid and supplement days that produced EXTREMELY HUGE results. I would classify that as the original HIT method, and it does work, even though it wasn't called that.
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Postby sensless » Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:32 pm

As an aside, HIT(T) method should be so intense that it FREQUENTLY causes vomiting by the lifter from total muscular exhaustion. This is what I mean by not being able to sustain oneself on this type of program over the long haul. That's just mentally difficult to do for longer than 8 weeks without experiencing burnout.

Regards,

John Jr.
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