Estrogen

[aliquis]

http://www.optimalbody.se/forum/showpos ... ostcount=1

May intrest some people.

[deavman]

Additional peice of info:
Something that all the soy bashers (Weston Price Institute, Mercola and the like) should take in consideration. A 20 some years long study about the effects of phyto-estrogens in soy based infant formula on 1500 male babies, recently ended was and published here in Israel . It conclusively found that there was no measurable difference between those fed with soy, mother's milk or cow's milk. Those babies were followed for over 20 years until they eventually grew up to be young men and were found with no statistically relevant difference from the milk-fed ones. Last month, the Israeli Health Ministry removed the soy products maximum comsuption recommendations that were enacted in 2003, concluding years of fear-monging and misrepresentation by special interests.
The anti-soy propaganda is sometimes overwhelming and with enough money(Think beef lobby) and so-called nutrition experts to repeat the mantra time after time, it becomes the accepted standard. Let's be a little more circumspect on all the hype being pushed on us. This also should include statements made on the supposed health benefits of the herb of the day.

any chance you can get us a link to that study so i can post about it on other boards?

Well, it seems that because the study just recently ended (02-2008 ) , there isn't yet any published data (NCBI, PUBMed), even as all major news networks here have announced the purported results. I have Emailed the lead researcher (Zvi Zedik) for info... I don't know if I'll get any response but I am sure it will eventually get officially published anyway.

[veganjkd]

I would just like to comment regarding my original post in case it was somehow taken that i was being negative regarding mikes comments/info regarding estrogen/test.

I was not and have nothing but respect for mike mahler as an awesome example of vegan strength!
i was only mentioning mike as he is a high profile vegan athlete commenting on an interesting subject.

i myself have in the past supplemented with ZMA which has some effect on male test levels supposedly so i am not against increasing test levels etc but was just out to learn more regarding estrogen blocking and people thoughts etc and the possible relation to soy.(of which i eat a fair bit!)

[Pete]

Aliquis said:

http://www.optimalbody.se/forum/showpost.php?p=42368&postcount=1

May intrest some people.

or you might prefer...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...

(I added the bold to the conclusion)

Int J Food Sci Nutr. 2007 Sep;58(6):424-8.
Increased one week soybean consumption affects spatial abilities but not sex hormone status in men.Celec P, Ostatníková D, Hodosy J, Putz Z, Kúdela M.
Institute of Pathophysiology, Faculty of Medicine, Comenius University, Bratislava, Slovak Republic. petercelec@gmail.com

BACKGROUND: Increased soybean intake is often recommended for the prevention of hormone-dependent cancer, cardiovascular diseases and age-related cognitive decline. Although isolated phytoestrogens have shown these positive effects, the evidence for such influence of increased consumption of soybeans is lacking. AIM: To prove the effects of short-term increased soybean intake on sex hormone levels and spatial cognitive parameters in men. SUBJECTS AND METHODS: Seven young healthy men were asked to eat 900 g soybeans during 1 week. Sex hormone levels were determined in saliva and plasma, and mental rotation and spatial visualization were quantified by standard psychometric tests. All parameters were assessed before and after the study. RESULTS: Plasma estradiol, total and free testosterone, as well as salivary testosterone and estradiol remained unchained. Spatial cognitive performance was improved after increased soybean intake when considering spatial visualization (P=0.03). The results for mental rotation showed similar dynamics, but the changes were not significant. CONCLUSION: Short-term increased soybean intake does not affect sex hormone status, but improves spatial cognitive performance in young healthy men.

[aliquis]

Soy affecting estrogen or not I wouldn't play with my hormon levels except thru my owns body reaction.

May I add to my own reply that I doubt soy affects it much, and there exist products to try to trick the body into producing more testosterone / less estrogen, give more free testosteron, block conversion to estrogen, and so on. Products which are easy to buy from regular supplement stores instead of prescription drugs.

I would assume they have less of an effect but even at the smaller effect I guess one are risking to fuckup ones health using them so I don't know if it's worth it. Also if you are training at a gym where you may be tested I assume some of them may put you at risk for testing positive.

[Centinal]

The study that originally claimed soya raised estrogen levels used a bb who had just come off a roid cycle. His increased estrogen was enough to effect the result.

To get back to the original question you would only need an estrogen blocker if you had just come of a cycle or you are a woman looking to build some serious mass.

Before whey became the powder of choice a lot of bodybuilders used soya. It was only when whey came on the seen that soya was seen as inferior and estrogen raising.

[Marty]

Cant find link, but I found a link a while ago that was promoting soya as an estrogen blocker of teh same power as tamoxifen, due to the phytoestrogens competing with the same receptors as real estrogen.

Anyway now that all the major muscle magazines are promoting soya it will become more accepted, maybe we'll even have some nice flavours of protein powders availiable rather than the rather vile (on its own) stuff there is now D:

I personally have been eating tons of soya for 13 yrs (now 32) and have no moobs whatsoever :P

[daisy]

Additional peice of info:
Something that all the soy bashers (Weston Price Institute, Mercola and the like) should take in consideration. A 20 some years long study about the effects of phyto-estrogens in soy based infant formula on 1500 male babies, recently ended was and published here in Israel . It conclusively found that there was no measurable difference between those fed with soy, mother's milk or cow's milk. Those babies were followed for over 20 years until they eventually grew up to be young men and were found with no statistically relevant difference from the milk-fed ones. Last month, the Israeli Health Ministry removed the soy products maximum comsuption recommendations that were enacted in 2003, concluding years of fear-monging and misrepresentation by special interests.
The anti-soy propaganda is sometimes overwhelming and with enough money(Think beef lobby) and so-called nutrition experts to repeat the mantra time after time, it becomes the accepted standard. Let's be a little more circumspect on all the hype being pushed on us. This also should include statements made on the supposed health benefits of the herb of the day.

any chance you can get us a link to that study so i can post about it on other boards?

Well, it seems that because the study just recently ended (02-2008 ) , there isn't yet any published data (NCBI, PUBMed), even as all major news networks here have announced the purported results. I have Emailed the lead researcher (Zvi Zedik) for info... I don't know if I'll get any response but I am sure it will eventually get officially published anyway.

is the study available now deavman?

thanks