What after 30km running?

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What after 30km running?

Postby soniczip » Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:03 pm

Hi everyone,

I am new here and discovered this forum because I am searching for an answer. I am training for my first marathon and so far the longest training session has been 30km. Whilst I felt ok at 26, I started feeling pretty dehydrated during the last 4km and my energy was literally leaking out. I was drinking sugared tea, but I suppose that's not enough after such a distance. Can you suggest me any energy drink, supplements, gels, bars or whatever vegan help I may find in the market? I live in London (UK).

Thanx in advance for your help.

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Postby JP » Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:55 pm

i find it odd that you haven't got an answer to your query mate :D Well, i dont know anything about such distances and endurance feats, but i'm pumping this up in case someone else could give some pointers!
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Postby fredrikw » Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:02 pm

yes, very odd indeed...

are you talking about what to eat/drink during or after running?
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Postby GenTDuke » Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:07 pm

After a run your body is basicly consuming its self, I am usualy to feel ill to eat directly after so I use:

Dextrose Monohydrate sold in H&B for a couple of quid, they market it as simply glucose though. Aparently dextose is the best post workout sugar.

20 mins After that my body normaly is ready for protein, it not I drink some brewers yeast for more carbs and some protein also availerble as powder at holand and barrett.

Thats just what I do though, I aint no runner; I just try my best.
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I'll explain it better

Postby soniczip » Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:19 pm

I am speaking about long training runs, not competitions. I am just building up my strenght base right now, and I am doing a long distance run every week. What I need to know is what to drink and/or eat during the run if I want to make it last longer than 26/30 km, and if I want to make it in a safe way.

Thanx again
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Postby fredrikw » Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:27 pm

I'm not a runner, but what I know from friends who are, doing more than 20 km often isn't beneficial training wise, you do more damage than you gain from it...

when cycling, you're often out for several hours and need to refuel if you don't want to hit the wall. Dave Noisy has written an informative article on this subject
http://www.veganfitness.net/index.php?p ... ticle&k=29

When I'm out on long distance rides, I usually drink some sort of sports drink, and always carry my home made Runes energy bar (see http://www.veganfitness.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=589). Other sources of high GI food are for example bananas and dates.

hydration is also important, make sure to rehydrate regularly, and don't forget to replentish the elctrolytes (salt) you lose when sweating. many sports drinks has these electrolytes.

I hope this helps.
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Postby andyO » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:03 am

Hi Soniczip,

Congrats on your training so far! sounds like you are nearly there. All the runners I have known who have run marathons said their longest training run beforehand was 20miles (about 32km) and these are pretty serious knowledgeable runners. I have run one marathon and all the advice I was given was to make 20miles my longest training run. The theory is that going over 20 miles at marathon speed does your body more harm than good, so if you are already running 30km, I'd say don't go much further in your training runs.

When I did my marathon, I drank plenty of small amounts of plain water often and at around 20 miles ate an energy gel; I found the cliff energy gels to be best. See this link for a good article on hydration for runners (the serpies website is a good source of information for running in general)
http://www.serpentine.org.uk/advice/nut ... hydrat.htm

You say you felt really tired after 25/30km - I really wouldn't worry too much about this - after all you've just run a VERY long way, tiredness is to be expected! The marathon is widely considered to be the most arduous running race distance on the body, since it's v.long but also run fast enough to stress the body, longer distances are much tougher stamina wise but they don't have such a negative impact on the body as they are run more slowly.

What I'm trying to say is that you are training for a very hard event, expect it to be hard - no one finishes a marathon without experiencing at least one "bad patch" in the race. But that's why we do it isn't it - for the feeling of achievement and accomplishment after overcoming the course and finishing. :)

Please don't take the above as discouragement though, it's a fantastic experience, your first marathon and if you can already run 30km I'd say you sound like you are in great shape for it!! :D

Hope this was of some help, good luck with the marathon and enjoy the experience!!! (when is it)

Andy

p.s. Oh one thing I think is important but not widely talked about is recovery after the marathon, I'd plan on taking 2 weeks off hard training to take it easy afterwards to let your body heal and recover.
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Postby Tarz » Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:43 am

Hi Soniczip,

Running shops will stock lot's of different energy supplements and products.

Whereabouts in London are ya? There's loadsa running shops in London I can point you to if you don't know any?

Good luck with the training.
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Postby soniczip » Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:57 pm

All the runners I have known who have run marathons said their longest training run beforehand was 20miles (about 32km) ... going over 20 miles at marathon speed does your body more harm than good, so if you are already running 30km, I'd say don't go much further in your training runs.

Gosh! today I have done another long run: 32km, BUT I drank 0.250l of water 30minutes before the training, I hate 4 sesame snaps (844 kcal) right before the training (I am definitely going to eat something DURING my next long training run), and drank 0.500l of water during the first 14km plus 0.750l of sugared tea (I will try fructose instead of normal sugar next time) during the last 18km. I hit the 30km mark 4 minutes before the previous effort (a week ago) and finished at 32km feeling tired (of course), but not exhausted. I felt I had at least another 8km in my legs. I am not training at marathon speed though, my target is to finish in 3:45 and I am only building up my strenght at the moment. I think next time I will do it with a hydration pack to carry more water and food.

Thanx to everybody for your tips: I found the serpentine article very usefull (thanx to shamen_x); I'll try the recipie (thanx to fredrikw); and to answer Tarz, I live in Bounds Green but work in the West End so feel free to suggest shops and specific vegan products.

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Postby Tarz » Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:12 am

Soniczip - there is a directory of London running shops in a free London sports magazine. I'll grab a copy tonight and list all the shops for you.

I don't think there is too much in the West End, maybe a shop in Victoria I think, dunno if that is classified as West End though. There is also a small Sweatshop outlet in the Cannon's Gym in Covent Garden.
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Energy

Postby Oak » Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:16 am

Alot of my friends have done marathon's and the ones which have done them the most comfortably have used energy gels every 30 mins.

I don't know of any vegan ones unfortunetly, but maybe worth looking into too?

Oak :D
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Postby fredrikw » Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:59 am

I have yet seen a non-vegan energy gel... what non-vegan ingredients have you all seen in energy gels?
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Postby Tarz » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:11 am

Maybe the peeps at the VCAC/Vegan Runners will know a bit more on this:

http://www.geocities.com/vegetariancac/ .

See if anyone in their Yahoo group can help you out here.
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Postby fredrikw » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:20 am

thanks tarz, but I don't think I need any help like that, the energy gels I use when cycling are all vegan (Maxim and Enervit). I was just curious about what ingredients people have found in their gels that are non-vegan...
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Training for your first Marathon

Postby Marathon girl » Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:42 pm

Hi there, I know that everyone is different and there are so many views and opinions on how you should train for a Marathon. I don't think there is any set formula for running a good race, I think it is a matter of listening to your body, learning how to understand what it is telling you and knowing how to act on the information. I just thought I would share with you what I do in the hopes it might help. I don't actually use any energy drinks, I think they are very expensive and very quickly learned to make my own using water, orange juice, glucose and salt. I know some people use the gels but I think they are quite sickly and hard to swallow when you are at that semi-dehydrated part of a Marathon. When preparing for a Marathon I do a 20+ mile run pretty much every week from the period of 11 weeks up to 3 weeks to go. I find I need to do a lot of mileage - my heaviest week in preparation for Amsterdam has been 104 miles. I don't carry water when I am running. I prefer to drink plenty before I leave and when I return. I also find that during the Marathon this gives me the extra confidence boost of knowing that I can easily run 20+ miles without taking on fluid so running 26 miles having the option of drinking regularly is not too bad. During a race I do drink at EVERY drinks station. I only take on water but I do drink LOTS of it during the race. Even when I feel that I don't need water I will drink as much as I can. I find this really pays off during the last few miles. I know this will not be everybody's 'cup of tea' so to speak, but I find it works for me. The other thing I find works is to really hammer myself up to the 3 week taper time - I train 7 days out of 8, 3 of those days I train twice, mixing the sessions between long runs and quality speed stuff. I find I operate best if I work as hard as I can up to the taper but when I get there really stick to it and don't become tempted to go out and do a 'few extra miles'. That way, on race days when your legs are fully rested you feel like you are floating round. Good luck. Fiona
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