Bitter and confused; does fruit make us fat?

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Bitter and confused; does fruit make us fat?

Postby custerdome » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:19 am

Greetings,

I recently finished reading Tim Ferriss' book "The 4-hour body" about fitness and weight loss. One of his diet rules is to avoid fructose at all cost, whether from whole fruit or otherwise. He makes the point that most of us did not have access to ripe fruit year-round during our evolutionary past, and that fruit has nothing to offer nutritionally anyway.

As someone who needs to lose 20 lbs to improve my half marathon time, this makes me confused. Would it be wise of me to avoid fructose, and focus on vegetables and legumes, in accordance with Ferriss' suggestions?

Part of my confusion has to do with the fact that most studies regarding fructose and weight gain seem to focus on high fructose corn syrup rather than whole fruit.

If you have any recommendations - particularly about losing the 20 lbs, cutting my half marathon time from 1:50 to (hopefully) around the 1:30 mark, and what role fruit should play in this journey - please enlighten me.

Any input MUCH appreciated.

Have a good one!
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Re: Bitter and confused; does fruit make us fat?

Postby Prime » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:35 am

Fruit doesn't make you fat. Eating more calories than you expend makes you fat.
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Re: Bitter and confused; does fruit make us fat?

Postby beforewisdom » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:38 am

There is only one thing that makes a human being fat: taking in more energy than s/he expends

You might find this thread to be helpful.
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Re: Bitter and confused; does fruit make us fat?

Postby baldy » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:06 am

[quote="custerdome"] One of his diet rules is to avoid fructose at all cost, whether from whole fruit or otherwise. He makes the point that most of us did not have access to ripe fruit year-round during our evolutionary past, and that fruit has nothing to offer nutritionally anyway.

I don't think this is a particularly valid point, sure at some stages of our evolution we did not have access to ripe fruit, but at other times bands of our ancestors certainly did have year round access to fruit (and still do). The only dietary lesson I can see from our evolution is that we can survive off eating just about anything, maybe should I should write a diet book about it :wink:

1:50 is good half marathon time, what do you base needing to loosing 20lbs on?
From my experience, increased mileage will probably melt off any excess bodyfat. Or do you want to follow a 4 hour a week kind of plan?
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Re: Bitter and confused; does fruit make us fat?

Postby Hiking Fox » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:00 pm

[quote="custerdome"] and that fruit has nothing to offer nutritionally anyway.


You mean besides vitamins, minerals, fibre, fluids, slow-release sugar, micro-nutrients etc?
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Re: Bitter and confused; does fruit make us fat?

Postby ninearms » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:02 pm

I think you're getting the wrong end of the stick, particularly when you look at fruit consumption in the context of the book's central aim. Ferris is basically saying that if your aim is to look good naked and feel good at the same time, and you want to get to that point with the least effort possible, then fruit is not in line with those aims. If you are on a calorie deficit then you only have a finite number of calories in which to obtain your nutrient needs. As fruit is nutritionally poor in comparison to vegetables and legumes Ferris suggests it would be better to make up that finite amount with foods which contains the most nutrients per calorie.

As for the "a calorie is a calorie" argument, I think this is oversimplified in the context of body composition, or more accurately looking good naked, and doesn't account for the difference between being fat and looking fat. Food choices definitely *do* make a difference in the latter case.
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Re: Bitter and confused; does fruit make us fat?

Postby beforewisdom » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:15 pm

Rule Of Thumb: If anyone tells you to avoid fruit or vegetables they do not know what they are talking about in regards to human nutrition.
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Re: Bitter and confused; does fruit make us fat?

Postby vCLaW » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:02 pm

1:50 is a pretty decent half marathon time. Getting it to 1:30 would be a big improvement.
How much do you currently weigh?
What sort of training are you currently doing?
If you want to run faster, I think you'll have to do a fair bit of running. And you'll need to make sure you are getting enough carbohydrates, so its reasonable to have some fruit for that.
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Bitter and confused; does fruit make us fat?

Postby ninearms » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:39 pm

[quote="beforewisdom"]Rule Of Thumb: If anyone tells you to avoid fruit or vegetables they do not know what they are talking about in regards to human nutrition.


Which is not what anyone is suggesting. Ferris is simply arguing that fruit is nutritionally poor compared to vegetables and legumes, so you'd be better off eating those instead. Fruit is basically a load of sugar, a bit of vitamin C, and not much else bar some fibre and trace amounts of other vitamins and minerals.
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Re: Bitter and confused; does fruit make us fat?

Postby Fallen_Horse » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:31 am

[quote="ninearms"][quote="beforewisdom"]Rule Of Thumb: If anyone tells you to avoid fruit or vegetables they do not know what they are talking about in regards to human nutrition.


Which is not what anyone is suggesting. Ferris is simply arguing that fruit is nutritionally poor compared to vegetables and legumes, so you'd be better off eating those instead. Fruit is basically a load of sugar, a bit of vitamin C, and not much else bar some fibre and trace amounts of other vitamins and minerals.


I gotta agree with this. Fortunately I love fruit WAY too much to give it up for a six pack....
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Re: Bitter and confused; does fruit make us fat?

Postby custerdome » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:33 am

Amazing feedback, all. Much appreciated!

I have belly fat which I want to lose. I am currently at 167 lbs (76 kg) and used to be at 145 lbs (66 kg) a couple of years ago. I am 179 cm / 5'10. With a rather wide frame, I obviously used to be quite skinny, and like how that build feels.

Part of my confusion has to do with the fact that my digestion is very weak. I do not handle legumes well at all, and certainly am not able to run fast with them in my stomach - they make me feel bloated and heavy! The only foods that I digest without effort (of the foods I have tried so far, I should add) are very ripe bananas, dates, figs, miso paste and hemp milk. My fear is that these foods would not necessarily cover all my nutritional needs.

baldy:

I definitely want to increase mileage. Right now I can not push myself beyond the half marathon distance. I hit the wall and can not continue running any further. When I was lighter I could run a slow marathon (around four hours) without much hassle.

ninearms:

When you point out that fruits are nutritionally poor compared to legumes, do you consider the impact of antinutrients and cooking?

vCLaW:

See top of this post for my weight and height. I can run 1:50 half marathons pretty much daily. I only bring water on these runs, but have been considering bringing fuel in my backpack. Again, I could not imagine bringing hummus or tofu on my runs due to my weak stomach, which I guess leaves me with fruit and hemp. Which, according to some people, would work against my weight loss. See my conundrum here? Aaargh.

Thank you all. Make tonight a wonderful thing.
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Re: Bitter and confused; does fruit make us fat?

Postby Fallen_Horse » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:15 pm

[quote="custerdome"].....
When you point out that fruits are nutritionally poor compared to legumes, do you consider the impact of antinutrients and cooking?
....


Cooking is neither negative nor positive as far as nutrition goes. Some foods have higher nutrient digestibility when cooked, and some have higher when raw, but in the end it pretty much all balances out.

Antinutrients are present in many foods, including legumes. Cooking greatly reduces the amount of antinutrients in legumes....
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Re: Bitter and confused; does fruit make us fat?

Postby Hiking Fox » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:15 pm

[quote="custerdome"]Thank you all. Make tonight a wonderful thing.


Hey! Nobody invited me to this collective lubed-up lovefest.
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Re: Bitter and confused; does fruit make us fat?

Postby mojoapple » Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:58 am

[quote="beforewisdom"]Rule Of Thumb: If anyone tells you to avoid fruit or vegetables they do not know what they are talking about in regards to human nutrition.
you make a good point. so many so called nutritionists really know next to nothing much about human nutrition. bad fructose bad!
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Re: Bitter and confused; does fruit make us fat?

Postby beforewisdom » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:51 am

I've found that the majority ( not all ) of the people making bogus nutrition claims are NOT nutritionists (Registered Dietitians), but people without university credentials, medical doctors who at least in the US don't get classes in nutrition OR nutritionists working for organizations whose interests are against people having the correct information ( dairy council spokespeople, etc ).
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