Needing A Little Assistance!

Any queries about vegan diet, nutrition, dieting, bulking and healthy eating in general. Diets and food from vegan perspective.

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Needing A Little Assistance!

Postby Fefe » Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:29 am

I love weight-lifting as allot of people can tell just by looking at me. But my problem is that I'm very heavy both with fat and muscle weight so I have like this stocky look which in my opinion is not very cute on a girl! On a guy...yes maybe :oops:

I really need some pointers on how to lose ALOT OF WEIGHT and gain MUCH MORE lean muscle throughout my body. I pretty much have the weightlifting part under control it's just the right vegan eating plan that gives me the pits and the results show big time. Could you possibly give me a few tips on eating the right kinds of foods example how much protein? Fat? Carbs? etc.
“There is no better time than now to get started on accomplishing your goals. Tomorrow may be too late."
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Postby Pete » Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:55 am

Hi Fefe welcome to the group!
I've got a guide to nutrition at http://www.veganbodybuilding.org/guides.htm that covers all the basics including a breakdown of carbs, fat & protein (although these sorts of guides are only a starting point. You try them & see how you're going in a month, if you're gaining fat, then you need to modify the calorific intake down etc).
You have to have either MS Word or Acrobat reader (a free downloadable program-details on the page) to view the downloads.
I'm someone coming from the opposite direction to you. I have problems getting weight on :!: (as you can see from the pic :oops: ). Hopefully as time goes on we'll both reach our goals & get the look we're after :)
Anyway, there's a great bunch of people here, who'll be able to give you loads of advice & support, so hopefully you'll keep us informed on how you're getting on as time goes on
Bye for now
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hi fefe

Postby ctchrinthry » Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:08 pm

I tend to gain weight very easily myself. What's worked for me in the past has been upping the cardio and cutting back the fat. Now i'm not talking like 5% fat in the diet here, more like 15%. And i try to eliminate saturated fats as best i can. Of course you have to reduce overall calories but one of the ideas is that a tablespoon of butter has as many calories as a big honking slice of bread, and the bread has more volume, energy, and nutrients. That goes more for an apple. But eating snackwells is still a no-no.
At this or that twist of it I feel my slippery self eluding me, gliding into deeper and darker waters than I care to probe.
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Thank You For You Input!

Postby Fefe » Wed Jan 14, 2004 6:06 pm

Hey thanks for the replys guys! I will take your advice into consideration and apply it to my daily nutrient needs. Thanks allot :D
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Postby NastyNicky » Wed Jan 14, 2004 7:00 pm

My advice is to focus on eating protein-riched foods as best you can. Like Beans, tofu, almonds, nuts, peanutbutter, soy products. Limit your sugar intake. try to get in complex carbs like oatmeal, sweet potatoes, rice, whole wheat bread, veggies etc.

Fellas, even though were Vegan's, the same rules apply. If you want to lose weight, controlling your carbohydrate intake is a must. Its hard for the body to lose weight if your insulin is always up. Im not suggesting to go crazy low, which i think is dangerous. But keep carbs at about 40-50% of your daily calories, coming from the complex carbs mentioned above. In my opinion, if trying to lose fat, olive oil is a better friend than fruit.
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Postby JP » Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:22 pm

[quote="NastyNicky"]
Fellas, even though were Vegan's, the same rules apply. If you want to lose weight, controlling your carbohydrate intake is a must. Its hard for the body to lose weight if your insulin is always up.


I'm not very good with nutrition issues, but at what price do you want to lose weight? Insulin in my books is a positive thing being as it is the most anabolic hormone in our bodies and carbs stimulate release of insulin.

Sure controlling carbs as any calorie is a must i agree, but as this is a training board we should assume that people who want to lose weight do not want to do it in the expense of muscle mass.
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Postby Pete » Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:42 pm

My dietary advice is always pretty basic.
First, clean up your diet. Go for 1 or 2 cheat meals a week (tip: plan when those will be in advance. Like if you've got a party on Thursday, then plug in a cheat meal for then).
Second, make sure you get plenty of protein rich food, a lot of complex carbs (salad type foods) & some healthy fat.
Third, if you want to lose weight eat slightly less calories than you need to maintain weight. If you want to gain weight eat slightly more calories than your body needs to maintain it's present weight.
That's my ultra simple diet plan, maybe a lot of people can do it with all scales, teaspoons & charts, but I haven't the time to really go down that road at the moment & for me food (even heathly food I tend to eat) should be fun & an enjoyment, not a chore, or something to stress about. Just remember to show a little restraint if your cutting & use a little bit of common sense when bulking (most of the time :twisted: hee hee)
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.

Postby josh » Tue Jan 20, 2004 7:26 pm

I was just wondering, if your trying to lose body fat while trying to gain muscle do you just eat more then need you to maintain your weight and add in alot of cardio? See i'm just confused because cardio burns off excess calories but the muscle uses the same calories to build/repair right?
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Postby Renecarol25 » Tue Jan 20, 2004 8:00 pm

Trying to gain muscle and loose fat is an uphill battle. If I wanted to gain muscle and loose fat I would try to eat just enough calories to sustain my weight at my activity level. That means eating the calories I burn off by lifting and cardio. Follow a low-fat (~20%range), high protein (25-30%) diet to support muscle growth. And realize its nearly impossible to do both at once. I am pretty much following that advice right now though I am trying to drop a few pounds fast for a competition that I am doing. So I realize that loosing the weight may mean sacrificing some of my hard earned muscle too.
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65/25/10

Postby nanoking » Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:39 pm

Here's what I've digested from talking to trainers, nutritionists, and web-based knowledge. FWIW, I'm 5'10" and weighed 160 lbs in 2000. I'm currently 210ish lbs. By any standard I've put on a significant amount of muscle mass as a vegan. Body fat% never gets out of control training or not since hunger scales with training volume. Of course, IMHO and YMMV.

You eat 65/25/10, carbos/protein/fat, by CALORIE %, realizing that plus/minus 5% is fine.

You keep in mind that fat has 9 cal/g, while carbo/protein only have 4 cal/g, not to mention it's hard to eyeball fat content by volume. You're eating fat to transport fat soluble vitamins and to get enough essential fatty acids for hormone regulation, brain tissue, etc.

You're starting point for total calories comes from taking your lean body weight (lbs) and multiplying by 0.5-1.2 (depending on activity level) to get your daily protein intake in grams.

You keep repeating to yourself that reducing carbs to "Atkins" levels is dangerous and won't provide you with enough energy for training (you're body will just burn the expensive protein you're eating and store the extra fat you've added to make up the difference, hence the 300g/day protein suggestions you hear). You're eating carbos for energy and protein for "infrastructure".

You can easily scale your overall calories up or down to gain or lose weight, and you zig-zag your daily calorie load whether going up or down.

You know it should be "hard" to "find" enough "good" carbos since you're not eating sucrose.

You drink lots of water.

You increase your metabolic rate over the long haul most efficiently by adding muscle mass via weight training. In the short term you add cardio to help your fat metabolism along. You shoot for 65-75% max heart rate for at least 20 mins per session realizing that the longer your cardio sessions the more likely you are burning muscle.

(posting this half as a reminder to myself :wink: )

-NK
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Postby Renecarol25 » Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:42 pm

Okay Sam I think you need to post a days diet for yourself. I could never get my fat level down to 10%.. not even with the large amount of fat free stuff I eat. Would love some advice on that one.
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diet fat level or body fat level?

Postby nanoking » Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:51 pm

Hopefully you mean 10% fat calories and not 10% body fat...someday! But I don't want to be 180 lbs and 10% bf like you runners out there.

Anyway here's a "real" list of food from a typical training day and we'll see if I pass my own test:

meal#1 "breakfast" ~8am: hot cereal, extra veg protein powder, molasses, pumpkin seeds, soy milk, diluted apple juice, maybe a sprinkling of veg formula Omega369 oil...

I measured it all out once and it seemed to match. I take that back about each "bite" being 65/25/10. Overall your diet should approach 65/25/10, but you're dynamically giving your body what it needs for the next few hours or to recover what was lost over the last few. So since you have the whole day to burn it off, the place to put extra fats is in the morning. I workout midmorning so if the calories are a little high for meal#1 that's why.

meal#2 "post-workout" ~11am: this one's easy, 50g protein, 30-50g dextrose, 30-50g maltodextrin...

That reminds me my big tubs of white powder in the kitchen are almost empty. Post-workout shake to take advantage of body's ability to take in higher than normal amounts of protein and carbos. Somewhat outside the 65/25/10 sphere of influence.

meal#3 "lunch" ~1pm: Goal is to reincorporate fat since I haven't had any since breakfast, maybe some blackeyed pea sprouts with some spinach, dressed with omega369 oil and vinegar.

meal#4 "supper" ~4pm: Not a big meal, usually whatever leftovers are around. Lentils and veggies.

meal#5 "dinner" ~7pm: With my wife, funny to see me eating smaller portions than her. Some vegan entree, tempeh or tofu maybe, green beans or somesuch veggie, potato, I tend to drink water with meals when I'm training (beer when I'm not hehe).

meal#6 "pre-sleep" ~10pm: post-ZMA stacking, maybe some gardenburger riblets? Or my personal favorite peanut butter on Yves slices. Mainly a protein source plus some fat or fiber to slow the digestion while I sleep.

So the 65/25/10 applies mainly to meals#1,3,4,5 since meals#2,6 wouldn't exist if I didn't train.

To be honest, I flail about more on non-training days since I don't have the same hunger trigger to get my diet in order. I also eat mostly wholesome foods so I eyeball it from the label to get near 65/25/10 if I'm building a sandwich or whatever.

I'm most guilty about my coffee intake, but it gets drastically cut when working out heavy since I either use it or green tea pre-workout. When something goes from being food/treat to being a supplement I don't overdo it. I don't eat candy (and wish my wife would stop offering me chocolate covered liquor bottles, Trader Joe's shoppers you know which ones I mean). I don't like sweet things very much so I just use molasses more like a supplement.

Critiques? Suggestions? Food choice suggestions?

-NK
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Postby Renecarol25 » Wed Jan 28, 2004 12:48 am

I'm not real big on supplements (at least the kind that have calories) I'd rather eat my food. I do take the flax oil now though... which adds to my fat intake calories. Yeah I meant dietary fat. If I eat really good I can get my daily fat down to around 15% but 10% is extremely low. What do you use to tally your %'s.
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Postby nanoking » Wed Jan 28, 2004 8:11 pm

I have a well worn scale in my kitchen for checking amounts if I'm unsure.

Other than that it's just reading the label, converting to calories and doing the math.
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