How long to cut then bulk for?

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How long to cut then bulk for?

Postby baldy » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:44 pm

Last year my goal was to get to 105kg, only managed to get up to about 103kg and most of the year float just under 100kg.

Started a "cut" from the start of January and finding it fairly easy to cut, combination of reduced calories, IF and higher protein. By the end of this week I should be 94kg which is weight class for oly lifting.

It's not likely that I will do any oly comps in the next 6 months, so maybe weight classes are not important, long term I would like to get to a decent 105kg.

So question, how long would you cut and then bulk for? My training is going to be in 4 week cycles this year, so would be easy to do a month at a time.

The 5 minutes google I did on it, seems to be in bodybuilding 3 months bulking/cutting which I think might be extreme.

In the past I have been able to put on nearly 1kg a week bulking, cutting seems like I can loose a similar amount. Interested if anyone has theories on how to do it most effectively.

The other approach that occurred to me is to use bodyfat % using skinfolds. Bulk till I get to 25% bodyfat then cut till I get down to 15% again.
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Re: How long to cut then bulk for?

Postby kallefs » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:30 pm

I don't have a clue about these things but why can you not just stay on a diet that keeps the weight steady? Seems kind of up and down if you are not cutting for a comp or similar?
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Re: How long to cut then bulk for?

Postby blinki » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:49 pm

My only thought is why would you let yourself gain 1kg a week? Surely you've been training long enough that most of that has to be fat hence gains for the sake of gains. Maybe a longer but slower bulk would make more sense
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Re: How long to cut then bulk for?

Postby JP » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:51 pm

aye, steady eddie mate. if no reason to do the yoyo then its a waste of energy and gains.

its easy to "cut" because you are just losing some of the easy flab kgs, thats not yet cutting ;) i mean in a serious meaning of the word.

you could probably easily go to the weight class below too without any real loss of strength eh?
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Re: How long to cut then bulk for?

Postby ninearms » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:14 pm

[quote="JP"]you could probably easily go to the weight class below too without any real loss of strength eh?


Baldy as an 85??? He'd have the worst levers ever. May as well go raw and start spamming forums with enzyme talk.
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Re: How long to cut then bulk for?

Postby JP » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:56 pm

i agree... i'd rather see him at 125...
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Re: How long to cut then bulk for?

Postby tal » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:56 pm

I prefer longer times doing each, doing it slowly and not half-arseing it.

Cut for about 6-7 months at the end of 2011. Have been bulking now since April last year, so 9 months.
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Re: How long to cut then bulk for?

Postby baldy » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:17 am

[quote="kallefs"]I don't have a clue about these things but why can you not just stay on a diet that keeps the weight steady? Seems kind of up and down if you are not cutting for a comp or similar?

The theory is you need calorie surplus to guarantee gains, best way to do this is to make sure bodyweight is going up.

[quote="blinki"]My only thought is why would you let yourself gain 1kg a week? Surely you've been training long enough that most of that has to be fat hence gains for the sake of gains. Maybe a longer but slower bulk would make more sense

Maybe I am being a bit sensational when I say 1kg a week. More accurate would be, in the past, on some weeks I have been able to gain as much as 1kg a week. This is not really sustainable else I would be 125kg already.
Interesting point though, at some stages I feel like I am training as hard as I possibly can. Also the thing about recovery weeks and if you should be bulking while you recover.
I could structure my diet to follow my training bulk during heavy weeks cut during recovery it just seems a little unintuitive.

[quote="JP"]aye, steady eddie mate. if no reason to do the yoyo then its a waste of energy and gains.

In theory I see, but in practise thinking about last year, I just see myself getting gradually fat and still not getting bigger.
Very hard to strike the balance where weight is only going up a little bit every week or month. I suppose I am getting a bit of a kick out of the control aspect of the cut, can see the progress on a scale which is motivating. Slow and steady gains need to be measure over a month, by which time my attention span would have wondered off.

[quote="ninearms"][quote="JP"]you could probably easily go to the weight class below too without any real loss of strength eh?


Baldy as an 85??? He'd have the worst levers ever. May as well go raw and start spamming forums with enzyme talk.

I would be ripped and tanned at 85kg.
Image
The weight classes in oly lifting are huge, 90kg for strongman comps would be ok. 85kg I would just be tall and lanky compared to most. u105 is correct weight class for me, just need to grow into it.

[quote="JP"]i agree... i'd rather see him at 125...
not going to happen, I need to get to 105kg first.

[quote="Talyn"]
Cut for about 6-7 months at the end of 2011. Have been bulking now since April last year, so 9 months.
You are way more dedicated than I am, can't really see myself keeping track of calories specially for an extended period.

So no real consensus then. This year I will keep better track of my weight and skin folds that in itself should be useful and motivational.

Crack pipe plan was to bulk month gain 4kg, cut month loose 3kg, after a year 6kg of lean gains? Bro science says maybe, real science says diabetes?
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Re: How long to cut then bulk for?

Postby ninearms » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:08 am

No need to track stuff if you don't want to. Eat more on training days, less on rest days.

IMO the whole bulk/cut thing is destined to fail 95% of the time unless you're doing the Eat Clen, Tren Hard thing. The usual course of events is:

- Lifter feels strong but fat. Decides to cut.
- Lifter cuts. Feels skinny and weak. Decides to bulk.
- Lifter bulks. Feels stronger again but fat. Decides to cut.
- Ad nauseum.

Don't eat too many carbs because they'll bloat you and you'll feel fat and start cutting out more calories. Save the carbs for training days. Do some bodybuilding.
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Re: How long to cut then bulk for?

Postby Linnéa76 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:43 pm

As you know, I advocate the chocolate/abs method, i e when abs start disappearing, eat less chocolate. :)

But if you like your diet to be something of a project, maybe you could experiment with macronutrient ratios.
I know some people have had success gaining muscle without gaining much fat by eating lots of carbs on training days
and less on rest days, while keeping protein intake high on all days. In practice that also means less calories on rest days,
since they replace pasta/bread and such with vegetables.

Edit: I guess that's basically what ninearms suggested...
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Re: How long to cut then bulk for?

Postby JP » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:00 pm

but first would need to see the abs before you can see them disappear :D
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Re: How long to cut then bulk for?

Postby xJimx » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:07 pm

[quote="ninearms"]- Lifter feels strong but fat. Decides to cut.
- Lifter cuts. Feels skinny and weak. Decides to bulk.
- Lifter bulks. Feels stronger again but fat. Decides to cut.
- Ad nauseum.


Indeed the one time I've done a 'cut' (not a true BB cut but in relative terms very strict for me) I got down to 85kg & my 5k time improved but I felt weak like an asthmatic kitten. Likewise back in the day I bulked to 106kg but ended up a fat b*stard.

I've come to the conclusion that provided I train I will naturally sit at around 95kg & won't go much above or below this without serious bulking/cutting, which frankly I can't be arsed with. I do feel like a bit of a pansy when I see/hear what the serious folk in my gym go through (not least endless cycles) for the sake of gains/aesthetics but at the end of the day I train to keep in reasonable shape & I'm not looking to win any prizes.
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Re: How long to cut then bulk for?

Postby baldy » Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:33 am

[quote="ninearms"] Save the carbs for training days. Do some bodybuilding.

Solid idea, will do for the next month, count down to the beach.

[quote="Linnéa76"]As you know, I advocate the chocolate/abs method, i e when abs start disappearing, eat less chocolate. :)

Yes but
[quote="JP"]but first would need to see the abs before you can see them disappear :D

They are so close though, I can feel them in there just wanting to come out. Probably need to be 85kg for them though, which would suck.

[quote="xJimx"]
I've come to the conclusion that provided I train I will naturally sit at around 95kg & won't go much above or below this without serious bulking/cutting.

Aye, exactly where I am.
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Re: How long to cut then bulk for?

Postby Lordmuppet » Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:42 pm

just thank your stars you don't naturally sit at 70kg :(
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