Brendan Brazier, Norris, Calcium, B12 And Misinformation

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Re: Brendan Brazier, Norris, Calcium, B12 And Misinformation

Postby beforewisdom » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:59 pm

You might enjoy the book Vegan For Life

It is by Jack Norris & Ginny Messina. The author are both vegans, both RDs, both maintain regularly updated vegan nutrition cites and both author regularly review the research journals. An interesting and good chunk of their book is spent debunking myths about vegan nutrition both positive myths and negative myths. If you follow their advice you will get a health amount of nutrition and without the added expense and inconvenience that unproven dietary beliefs require.
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Re: Brendan Brazier, Norris, Calcium, B12 And Misinformation

Postby BlueRose » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:05 pm

[quote="beforewisdom"]You might enjoy the book Vegan For Life

It is by Jack Norris & Ginny Messina. The author are both vegans, both RDs, both maintain regularly updated vegan nutrition cites and both author regularly review the research journals. An interesting and good chunk of their book is spent debunking myths about vegan nutrition both positive myths and negative myths. If you follow their advice you will get a health amount of nutrition and without the added expense and inconvenience that unproven dietary beliefs require.


Adding it to my list and moving it to the top of said pile. I run into misinformation on nutrition on BOTH sides and have some omnis convinced I'm a constant arguer/debater...then they've seen me run up against vegans with the same thing. I'm just against misinformation on nutrition, PERIOD. It doesn't help our cause to tell everyone they'll drop 50 lbs if they "just eat vegan" and when they nothing but processed foods, Daiya cheese, and pasta and wonder why they're gaining and get sick and yell at us...yeaaahhh. Then there are the people who are hardcore into fitness, are the 3% the RDA doesn't account for and NEED to know solid, real info on nutrition and can't get it because we're being told tanning booths are the best thing for vitamin D and being vegan protects you from both sunburn and skin cancer.... Anyhow. You get the picture. I'm singing to the Greek chorus again, so I'll just quietly step aside and exit stage left. :wink:
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Re: Brendan Brazier, Norris, Calcium, B12 And Misinformation

Postby beforewisdom » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:51 pm

Both Messina and Norris have published things on their sites that vegans would rather not be true, so if there is a problem, I trust that they will tell "us" ( the vegan community ). You can't fix a problem if you don't know what it is, so I find their sites and books to be more worthy than other literature. Various AR orientated orgs have omitted nutrition information in the past that would have made a vegan diet less shiny looking. Raw food authors and other people financially invested, emotionally or otherwise invested in a diet have played similar games.
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Re: Brendan Brazier, Norris, Calcium, B12 And Misinformation

Postby BlueRose » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:51 pm

[quote="beforewisdom"]Both Messina and Norris have published things on their sites that vegans would rather not be true, so if there is a problem, I trust that they will tell "us" ( the vegan community ). You can't fix a problem if you don't know what it is, so I find their sites and books to be more worthy than other literature. Various AR orientated orgs have omitted nutrition information in the past that would have made a vegan diet less shiny looking. Raw food authors and other people financially invested, emotionally or otherwise invested in a diet have played similar games.


Yeah, I don't like those games. I like FACTS.
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Re: Brendan Brazier, Norris, Calcium, B12 And Misinformation

Postby jpowell » Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:23 am

[quote="BlueRose"][quote="beforewisdom"]No MD will tell anyone that b-12 in the lower intestines is absorbed and used. People who have MDs, RDs, who regularly read the journals, who are not selling a product and who are not selling a food religion pretty much agree on most things in my experience.


You've summed up why I love eating raw but some of the raw foodists have turned me off to it entirely, especially the 80-10-10ers.


+1 :)
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Re: Brendan Brazier, Norris, Calcium, B12 And Misinformation

Postby jpowell » Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:30 am

the only other major issues that i have personally found especially true for almost any type of raw food being lysine content (I think I've seen some pretty head in the sand comments about that) and, for some (such as myself), cost/ease of consuming high enough quantities, but as soon as raw food is a tool in an appropriately planned (hopefully vegan) nutrition programme, rather than a belief system, awareness of the issues solves the problem.
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Re: Brendan Brazier, Norris, Calcium, B12 And Misinformation

Postby Sarah-lara » Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:11 pm

I am not a nutritionist so I will defer to others for that, but I saw Brendan Brazier speak the other night and seriously doubt he's "sold out." He and his team actually downplayed his products quite a bit by saying you could use his recipes online instead of buying Vega (things like coconut water blended with dates) that you didn't need the sport drink if you weren't an athlete, that you could just get one book, that you don't need so many of his other products if you were already using Vega One, etc.

Unless it's an incredibly shrewd marketing ploy -- and maybe it works because I saw a lot of folks buying products after his lecture--, he seems genuinely concerned with sharing his thoughts on health. Both the lecture and the Q&A time focused not on his products but on health foods (quinoa, amaranth, greens, fruits, etc.), how to experiment to find what works for you, and how to time eating around workouts.

It was the least slick presentation I think I've ever seen and I don't think he went out on a limb with any of his claims (not that I could tell anyway.) I definitely didn't get the sense he was chained to any corporate script or agenda. They said he does e-lectures with Cornell now, which I consider impressive as the few people I knew who worked at Cornell were at the top of their game.
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Re: Brendan Brazier, Norris, Calcium, B12 And Misinformation

Postby BlueRose » Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:47 pm

[quote="jpowell"]the only other major issues that i have personally found especially true for almost any type of raw food being lysine content (I think I've seen some pretty head in the sand comments about that) and, for some (such as myself), cost/ease of consuming high enough quantities, but as soon as raw food is a tool in an appropriately planned (hopefully vegan) nutrition programme, rather than a belief system, awareness of the issues solves the problem.


I really do think that eating as much non-processed food as possible is healthier and the healthiest to eat. But when raw foodists tell me I no longer need sunblock, a toothbrush, dental floss...I'm thinking that some are overselling this lifestyle and not being honest with it or about it. It will not make you immortal and immune from all illnesses, diseases, cancers, etc. Neither will vegan diets in general.

Now...I'm not saying EVERYONE who is a raw foodist is like this, and I've interacted with some incredibly sane 80-10-10ers that made me take an honest look at the lifestyle for a bit. But there are a few who give the rest a bad name and come across as just trying too hard to sell their books or products surrounding the diet and what-not...and still others that make these really whack claims that make me think they've been drinking too much of something in their juices, I know not what.
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Re: Brendan Brazier, Norris, Calcium, B12 And Misinformation

Postby BlueRose » Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:59 pm

[quote="Sarah-lara"]I am not a nutritionist so I will defer to others for that, but I saw Brendan Brazier speak the other night and seriously doubt he's "sold out." He and his team actually downplayed his products quite a bit by saying you could use his recipes online instead of buying Vega (things like coconut water blended with dates) that you didn't need the sport drink if you weren't an athlete, that you could just get one book, that you don't need so many of his other products if you were already using Vega One, etc.

Unless it's an incredibly shrewd marketing ploy -- and maybe it works because I saw a lot of folks buying products after his lecture--, he seems genuinely concerned with sharing his thoughts on health. Both the lecture and the Q&A time focused not on his products but on health foods (quinoa, amaranth, greens, fruits, etc.), how to experiment to find what works for you, and how to time eating around workouts.

It was the least slick presentation I think I've ever seen and I don't think he went out on a limb with any of his claims (not that I could tell anyway.) I definitely didn't get the sense he was chained to any corporate script or agenda. They said he does e-lectures with Cornell now, which I consider impressive as the few people I knew who worked at Cornell were at the top of their game.


I'm going to give my $0.02 worth on this whole thing, not that people aren't used to that from me by now. ;)

Are people skeptical of him because he has products to sell, or because they think he's misrepresenting the vegan movement? Based on this thread I'm not really sure which it is, but it seems to mostly be the former--which is a really dumb thing, IMHO.

We need more vegan athletes willing to go out on a limb, write books, and get good stuff out there, and I'm not too willing to ditch him or his philosophy like some seem to be here. I LOVE the Vega products and I've never gotten anything other than good results with them. I also think he has sound nutritional advice. I don't think there's any one nutritional blueprint that will work for everyone, but if there's an athlete out there who's done what he's suggesting and it's working out for him/her, their health is great...obviously it's not likely to kill a good portion of people. Nutritional science keeps advancing, and what we used to believe/think 5-10 years ago is starting to change in a lot of respects, but it's slow to move. I don't know the full story behind whatever "inaccuracies" people are stating about what he's written, and I'm not exactly sure I should care. More accurately...I'm not convinced I should.

This is the deal, pure and simple: we need more vegan athletes. Why are we so quick to diss the few we've got and rake them over the coals? Are we seriously in a position to be that picky? Are people THAT skeptical merely because he sells products? He's marketing a whole foods, plant based diet to the fitness masses, the ONLY line of products out there that are purely plant-based and ethical, and guess what folks...a lot of them still see meat=protein and dairy=calcium. We have a LONG, hard battle ahead of us and while some more mainstream places are starting to embrace the meatless fitness world (Clean Eating put out a vegan/vegetarian/pescatarian book; Beachbody has vegan products, a 21 day vegan "cleanse", and support for vegan meal plans), we're not exactly mainstream just yet.

Again, my $0.02 worth. Everyone here is totally free to disagree with me, and I don't care if you do. I just had to speak up because some of the statements I'm reading are just ridiculous. You'd think he were caught wearing a fur coat or beating a dog with the way some of you talk about him....
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Re: Brendan Brazier, Norris, Calcium, B12 And Misinformation

Postby tal » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:31 pm

My only issue is the cost. No protein powder (MRP, call it what you will, it's protein powder) is worth $4-5 per serving. He's ripping off his target market.

I'd like him a whole lot more if this was not the case.
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Re: Brendan Brazier, Norris, Calcium, B12 And Misinformation

Postby beforewisdom » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:35 pm

[quote="BlueRose"]
Are people skeptical of him because he has products to sell, or because they think he's misrepresenting the vegan movement?


Speaking for myself, neither.

I am skeptical of his claims

1. because he does not give references to research that people can use to look up to see if what he says is true has been
proven as true.

2. he has published elementary nutrition information on his web site that is flat out wrong

My own opinion is that he is getting a lot of slack from vegans because they see him as one of their own. If he was into the paleo diet and his claims were of the same quality the same people would be roasting him.
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Re: Brendan Brazier, Norris, Calcium, B12 And Misinformation

Postby BlueRose » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:50 pm

[quote="Talyn"]My only issue is the cost. No protein powder (MRP, call it what you will, it's protein powder) is worth $4-5 per serving. He's ripping off his target market.

I'd like him a whole lot more if this was not the case.


The Vega One, formerly known as the Whole Meal Optimizer? It's got heck of a lot more in there than just protein, it's like protein, a multivitamin, probiotics, and digestive enzymes all in one.
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Re: Brendan Brazier, Norris, Calcium, B12 And Misinformation

Postby BlueRose » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:51 pm

[quote="beforewisdom"][quote="BlueRose"]
Are people skeptical of him because he has products to sell, or because they think he's misrepresenting the vegan movement?


Speaking for myself, neither.

I am skeptical of his claims

1. because he does not give references to research that people can use to look up to see if what he says is true has been
proven as true.

2. he has published elementary nutrition information on his web site that is flat out wrong

My own opinion is that he is getting a lot of slack from vegans because they see him as one of their own. If he was into the paleo diet and his claims were of the same quality the same people would be roasting him.


Fair enough. Would you mind giving examples of each?
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Re: Brendan Brazier, Norris, Calcium, B12 And Misinformation

Postby tal » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:57 pm

[quote="BlueRose"][quote="Talyn"]My only issue is the cost. No protein powder (MRP, call it what you will, it's protein powder) is worth $4-5 per serving. He's ripping off his target market.

I'd like him a whole lot more if this was not the case.


The Vega One, formerly known as the Whole Meal Optimizer? It's got heck of a lot more in there than just protein, it's like protein, a multivitamin, probiotics, and digestive enzymes all in one.


I'm sorry, but you are not really selling it to me.

I can get a 3 month supply of multivitamins for £5.

Additional digestive enzymes are not necessary, the human body has billions of them already. Proved by the fact I don't consume Vega yet I digest food just fine.

Most soya yogurts contain probiotics.

So yeah, it's just protein powder.
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Re: Brendan Brazier, Norris, Calcium, B12 And Misinformation

Postby BlueRose » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:01 pm

[quote="Talyn"]I'm sorry, but you are not really selling it to me.


Given I'm not a sales rep or anything, it's really doubtful I'm trying to sell *anything* to you.

[quote]I can get a 3 month supply of multivitamins for £5.


Not the case here in the US and good luck finding ones you're certain are vegan and owned by ethical companies.

[quote]Additional digestive enzymes are not necessary, the human body has billions of them already. Proved by the fact I don't consume Vega yet I digest food just fine.


My digestive system says otherwise. It's improved leaps and bounds since taking it. Not everyone's system is the same.

[quote]Most soya yogurts contain probiotics.


And most contain unnecessary sugars and crap I don't want to eat. The rest aren't even genuinely vegan.

[quote]So yeah, it's just protein powder.

We'll agree to disagree. :)
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