crash diet and strength loss

Any queries about vegan diet, nutrition, dieting, bulking and healthy eating in general. Diets and food from vegan perspective.

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Re: crash diet and strength loss

Postby hardcore iv » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:55 pm

As JP suggests, get your body comp checked (skinfolds, or dodgy BF% scales as a last resort) so you can keep track of changes. Any gym instructor/trainer in Australia is technically supposed to be able to do this.

I crunched a few numbers following conventional diet guidelines and came up with this, based on the info you have provided so far. Going by your current bodyweight of 65kg, with a 500 cal deficit you would be on about 1100 calories per day, not taking into account physical activity. On a fairly conventional 40/30/30 macro breakdown that is about 440 cal from carb (110gms), 330 cal from protein (83 gms) and 330 cal from fat (37gms). This is almost ketogenic so you may want to up the carbs a bit on lifting days if you want to avoid the foggy headedness of ketosis.

[quote]I don't know if it was the cardio itself that was leaving me so worn out or just not having rest days


Here's another clue as to why you may not be getting your desired results. How often are you doing this high intensity stuff and on what days? Probably best bet is to do it only on lifting days and go for a walk on your non-lifting days and go lower cal on rest days and higher on training days.

Depending on your personality type, just trying to control portion sizes and reduce junk may not help that much as they are not specific enough. You may have to start measuring out portions and calculating calories and having a a full weeks menu planned and prepared in advance. May seem slightly extreme but you are after extreme results ;)
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Re: crash diet and strength loss

Postby muchluv » Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:14 pm

I am trying to lose a little bit of weight at the moment but am doing a terrible job of it as I'm not really trying properly.

Before I was vegan or veggie, I lost about a stone and a half (10kg) before stopping and gaining a bit again, by eating around 1500kcals a day (actually, it could have been less, I think I used to assume my cereal and lunch was 500 but it was probably lower), and going to the gym maybe 3 or 4 times a week. At the gym I used to spend an hour (usually) on the crosstrainer/elliptical trainer. That thing burns a ridiculous amount of calories, around 700 an hour.

If you have access to a gym I would reccomend time on that machine. I don't know how it burns so many calories, sometimes I wonder if it's accurate. I don't know much about the HIIT or metcon stuff but I'm guessing you could do it there, maybe on a rower or something.

One thing you could do is to eat your BMR, then everything you do is extra calories burned. Maybe this would be good motivation. Walking is great for burning calories, for you roughly 74 calories for 20 minutes (1 mile at 3mph) walking. Walking is easy and can be done for long periods of time.

I guess it depends how fast you want to lose the weight, by the sounds of it you want to lose it quickly like 2lbs per week which would require more dieting on top of it.

Also weighing yourself can be funny, it may seem like your not losing anything then you have a sudden drop. Also the amount of salt you have eaten can vary the water retention, little things like that which can skewiff resutls and confuse you.

Apologies if this was all obvious stuff you already knew!
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Re: crash diet and strength loss

Postby vegieburger » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:41 pm

Thankyou everyone for the advice.

[quote="JP"]take a bit of a professional approach, like martial artists or powerlifters etc making their weight cuts. There wont be any room for strength loss, but the approach can be pretty strict.

I would first note down your daily eating, and your training, maybe write them here for criticism. Simple apprach is to just change small things to start with, cutting the "junk", cutting some portion sizes, upping the relative percentage of protein intake and so on. In training looking at the overall calorie expenditure impact of it, and maybe get more done in less time.

losing that weight is not an unrealistic goal, but since you have started lifting, perhaps you have put on fair bit of muscle too and that weighs more, so rather than looking at scales, maybe also look at body composition?


I've started writing down all that I eat and will put it in my training log along with my workouts. I've defently put on muscle but I still think that I have 10kgs of fat there that I can lose.

[quote="hardcore iv"]As JP suggests, get your body comp checked (skinfolds, or dodgy BF% scales as a last resort) so you can keep track of changes. Any gym instructor/trainer in Australia is technically supposed to be able to do this.

I crunched a few numbers following conventional diet guidelines and came up with this, based on the info you have provided so far. Going by your current bodyweight of 65kg, with a 500 cal deficit you would be on about 1100 calories per day, not taking into account physical activity. On a fairly conventional 40/30/30 macro breakdown that is about 440 cal from carb (110gms), 330 cal from protein (83 gms) and 330 cal from fat (37gms). This is almost ketogenic so you may want to up the carbs a bit on lifting days if you want to avoid the foggy headedness of ketosis.


I think they might have capilers (sp) at the gym, actually on of the instructers said she'd like to test me with them because apart from my waist I'm pretty musculer.

Thanks for working all that out for me, I could never have done all that myself. Ashamedly I have already had almost 300cals (most from carbs) and its only 10.30am :oops: No wonder I am struggling with my weight but I am planning on killing it at the gym today so perhaps I shouldn't aim for 1100 unless its a rest day. Also I've got 2 and a half assignments to finish this semester so I don't want to be foggy headed until they are done.

[quote="hardcore iv"]Depending on your personality type, just trying to control portion sizes and reduce junk may not help that much as they are not specific enough. You may have to start measuring out portions and calculating calories and having a a full weeks menu planned and prepared in advance. May seem slightly extreme but you are after extreme results ;)


I am thinking that I will have to start planning food out and writing every little thing down which is something that I have avoided doing (as well as avoiding counting cals) because it is something that I used to do when I had an eating disorder and I have always been afraid that if I starting trying to control food like that again it would lead down the same path but I might just have to risk it.

[quote="muchluv"]Before I was vegan or veggie, I lost about a stone and a half (10kg) before stopping and gaining a bit again, by eating around 1500kcals a day (actually, it could have been less, I think I used to assume my cereal and lunch was 500 but it was probably lower), and going to the gym maybe 3 or 4 times a week. At the gym I used to spend an hour (usually) on the crosstrainer/elliptical trainer. That thing burns a ridiculous amount of calories, around 700 an hour.


I think I will start using the crosstrainer again, I used to go use them a fair bit but it kind of just dropped away. I go to the gym at least 4 times a week so I have access to cardio equipment, it is just a matter of forcing myself into the cardio room instead of my beloved weight room. There are also some useful things for hiit at the gym like boxes for box jumps

[quote="muchluv"]Also weighing yourself can be funny, it may seem like your not losing anything then you have a sudden drop. Also the amount of salt you have eaten can vary the water retention, little things like that which can skewiff resutls and confuse you.


Perhaps I should go off measurememnts instead and only weigh myself once in a while.

I spoke to one of the trainers at the gym yesterday who is studying nutrition. She had some ideas as to my weight and why I have unbudgable fat around my waist. Basically there are 3 things she thinks are causing it. Too many carbs, cortisol from being stressed, and that my body is still out of wack from having an eating disorder, even though it was years ago (five years ago I was 43kgs and then I went up to about 48 but it wasn't until about 3 years ago that I got up to a healthy weight) I don't know if my metabolism could still be out of wack from that but she seemed to think it could be.

Thanks for all the help and for talking me out of 700cals a day. I'll start my log back up and hopefully I'll have progress.
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Re: crash diet and strength loss

Postby JP » Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:56 am

hey tabatas on the crosstrainer :D

makes it a bit more fun...

you will look like a nutter though

"look at that woman, she is going crazy with the crosstrainer!"

"no, she stopped now..."

"there she goes again!"

...
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Re: crash diet and strength loss

Postby sosso » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:36 am

I used to think all that tabata stuff was a load of crossfit nonsense, until I tried it with some kettlebell swings. It's brutal.
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Re: crash diet and strength loss

Postby fredrikw » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:12 am

[quote="sosso"]I used to think all that tabata stuff was a load of crossfit nonsense, until I tried it with some kettlebell swings. It's brutal.

Tabatas are great for increasing your VO2max (cardio) in a time efficient way, although I'd say most people don't do them correctly. All intervals should be the same ultra high intensity (ie no slacking off at the final intervals), and if you're able to do continue traning afterwards you're not doing them intensely enough. You're still doing some kind of interval training, but it's not tabatas :)
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Re: crash diet and strength loss

Postby vegieburger » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:39 am

[quote="JP"]hey tabatas on the crosstrainer :D

makes it a bit more fun...

you will look like a nutter though

"look at that woman, she is going crazy with the crosstrainer!"

"no, she stopped now..."

"there she goes again!"

...


Despite having a friend who raves about tabatas on a regular basis I had no idea what is was when I first read your post. I was thinking it was something like tapas and I was like 'yeah, food would make the cross trainer more enjoyable but it would defeat my weightloss goals.' It only took me a few seconds to remember what it is though. I've been meaning to try it but I have nothing to time my intervals with. Perhaps I should invest in one of those snazzy gymboss timers 8)
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Re: crash diet and strength loss

Postby hardcore iv » Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:35 am

[quote=fredrikw]... although I'd say most people don't do them correctly.[/quote]

Too true. Here's an interesting article about the tabata protocol.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/predictors-of-endurance-training-performance.html

And here's the original article by Tabata for those who are curious.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/6562458/HIIT-VO2-Research
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